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Galin · 02-06-2013, 01:36 PM

My timeline (subject to change with my opinion or mood, or if something below doesn't make sense). Note that I'm not a combiner but rather take an approach that might be described as: if it's a draft and I get even the smallest [subjective] whiff of 'revised' then I'm probably tossing it out.

First Age

Mostly as in the constructed Silmarillion and The Road Goes Ever On. I accept Tolkien's later role for Galadriel at Swanhaven as a defender of the Teleri, but for the record I rather like the idea that she showed up too late to do anything [as I believe was the concept fom the early 1950s].

With a notable cough I 'interpret' Galadriel's line in The Lord of the Rings ['... and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat.'] to mean she passed over mountains into Beleriand to ultimately meet Celeborn, a Sindarin Elf and kinsman of Thingol, in Doriath.

There seems to be a bit of a textual issue with Galadriel visiting Finrod in Nargothrond, but I also accept the published Silmarillion that she did visit him.

After that is seems we have Galadriel in Thingol's realm, learning from Melian and having a life with Celeborn there until the Sack of Doriath, based on the brief line [Unfinished Tales] that Celeborn 'escaped the sack of Doriath'.

Second Age

Galadriel has been specially banned from Aman for her role in the Rebellion. She proudly refuses to return anyway [RGEO]

Year

1 Foundation of Lindon and Grey Havens. Gil-galad, son of Arothir son of Angrod, dwells in North Lindon as High King. Celeborn is given a fief to rule in South Lindon, with many Sindar [Of Dwarves And Men]

750 Eregion founded by the Noldor. Celebrimbor the Feanorean is Lord. This Noldorin migration is based on learning that mithril had been discovered in Moria [Appendix B]. At some point Galadriel passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn and went to Eregion [RGEO]

According to one version of the story [internally] at some point before Annatar deluded the Smiths of Eregion [sometime before year 1200 I guess], Celebrimbor makes the Elessar for Galadriel [here I reject that she came from Greenwood to Eregion to speak to Celebrimbor]

Before the building of Barad-dur [c. year 1000] Amdir migrates to Lindorinand and rules the Silvan folk there.

1693 the Three Rings are hidden [Appendix B] At this time perhaps Galadriel recieves Nenya, and possibly travels to Lindon with the other two Rings. One of the details from Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn that I do note concerns her advice to Celebrimbor to send the Three away, far from Eregion where Sauron believed them to be. If this is so, and she received Nenya, it might be thought that she herself passed to Lindon at this time.

Either that or Nerwen remains in Eregion at this point -- as here we have contemporary but seemingly conflicting statements -- one being that Celeborn ultimately joined Galadriel in Lindon after fortifying Lothlorien, the other being that they both passed to Lorien after Eregion was destroyed.

1695 Sauron invades Eriador. 1697 Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. Gates of Moria are shut. Elrond reteats with remnant of the Noldor. Celeborn passes to Lindorinand to fortify it.

1701 Sauron driven out of Eriador. Again, Celeborn either joins Galadriel in Lindon, or, both having passed to Lindorinand at the destruction of Eregion [UT note], they both remain in the realm of Amdir for a time [I wish I could tell which note was later here, to help me chose one or the other]. If both Galadriel and Celeborn are in Lindorinand, they return to Lindon at some point [making some use of the note where Celeborn rejoins Galadriel in Lindon at least].

And Galadriel and Celeborn return to Lindorinand twice before the Last Alliance [UT note].

During one of these two visits Galadriel begins the planting of mallorn trees in Lindorinand. Possibly all we need is a 'mere' 500 years for the trees to become grown enough for Cerin Amroth in the future, for example, or at least it was said in UT [A description of Numenor] that in Numenor '... the mighty tree malinorne, reaching after five centuries a height scarce less than it achieved in Eressea itself.'] Of course that's Numenor, but it could be that in 500 years the mallorn will grow to its highest height in Middle-earth as well, whatever that is [is it noted? I can't recall].

3431 Gil-galad and Elendil march to Imladris before the Last Alliance. Celebrian and Galadriel possibly go at least this far with Celeborn, so Elrond and Celebrian possibly meet at this point [trying to get them together before TA 109 anyway].

3441 Sauron overthrown. Amdir had been slain in 3434 [at the Battle of Dagorlad] . Second Age ends. Amdir's son Amroth, King of the Silvan Realm.

Third Age

Elrond returns to Imladris [in my timeline] meeting Celebrian again. Possibly at this time they fall in love. Galadriel and Celeborn either remain in Imladris with Celebrian, or the family returns to Lindon at some point.

109 Elrond weds Celebrian [in Imladris in any case I would say, with Celeborn and Galadriel present].

c. 1000 the Istari arrive in Middle-earth. According to another internal version of The Elessar, at some point Olorin brings the jewel to Galadriel [here I again reject that she lived in Greenwood the Great at this point]. Despite that she can employ Nenya at this time, if desired, according to this version Galadriel appears to desire the land about her to be preserved.

1050 a shadow falls on Greenwood. c. 1100 the Wise discover that an evil power has made a stronghold at Dol Guldur.

At some point between c. 1100 and c. 1300 Galadriel becomes filled with foreboding and with Celeborn she journeys to Lorien, staying long with Amroth, being especially concerned to learn news of the growing shadow in Mirkwood and the stronghold at Dol Guldur [and see note on mallorn trees below].

Celeborn and Galadriel take long journeys of enquiry in Rhovanion, and ultimately pass over the Misty Mountains to Imladris and dwell there for many years [UT note, Artanis' daughter now probably dwells in Imladris after all, rather than Lindon]

c. 1300 Evil things begin to multiply again. Orcs increase in the Misty Mountains [Appendix B, and this is why I put the return from Rhovanion over the mountains somewhere before this date].

1981 Nain I slain. Dwarves flee Moria. Amroth and Nimrodel lost. Celeborn and Galadriel take up the government of Loriand or Lorinand, by this time called so because of the golden mallorn trees.

Galadriel associates the name Lori(n)and [which itself had altered from earlier Lindorinand due to the golden trees] with Quenya Lorien, itself prefixed with Sindarin loth 'flower' at some point, resulting in Lothlorien among other names.

And so on, as in The Lord of the Rings.

Note on mallorn trees

At this point in the Third Age, c. 1100, Galadriel could plant the mallorn trees as well, and here Nenya is available. Although the Three were directed to the preservation of beauty, they might also be included in: 'But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor.' [letter 131 notes the chief power of all the rings alike was that of preservation, but also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor].

Even if the trees take 500 years to grow to full height [which is not certain really], Cerin Amroth has plenty of time to be considered the heart of the old realm in my opinion, and from around TA 1600 to 1981 the mallorns might be full grown.

However this seems to disagree with a note [UT] that has Amroth's flet being built after about 1,000 years in the Third Age, to watch Dol Guldur at first, for the Trees atop the mound should arguably be quite tall by c. 1100 for him to build a flet therein [instead of being planted at this time] -- although in the late tale of Amroth and Nimrodel itself, it is simply said that Amroth had many years of peace after the defeat of Sauron, and he lived after the manner of the Silvan Elves and '... housed in the tall trees of a great green* mound, ever after called Cerin Amroth.'

So perhaps his flet need not have begun as a watch on Dol Guldur.

But Amroth And Nimrodel seems to suggest (in my opinion) that the mallorn trees of Cerin Amroth should be tall somewhat early in the Third Age, and Legolas' words in The Lord of the Rings also seem to imply that the Galadhrim were living in trees before the Shadow came -- so maybe it's safer to push the planting back to the Second Age again.

Or maybe go with what I think was the early concept, that the mallorn trees grew in Lorien without Galadriel, and before she arrived.

*not a 'green great' mound, I note

02-06-2013, 01:36 PM	#32
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,031	My timeline (subject to change with my opinion or mood, or if something below doesn't make sense). Note that I'm not a combiner but rather take an approach that might be described as: if it's a draft and I get even the smallest [subjective] whiff of 'revised' then I'm probably tossing it out. First Age Mostly as in the constructed Silmarillion and The Road Goes Ever On. I accept Tolkien's later role for Galadriel at Swanhaven as a defender of the Teleri, but for the record I rather like the idea that she showed up too late to do anything [as I believe was the concept fom the early 1950s]. With a notable cough I 'interpret' Galadriel's line in The Lord of the Rings ['... and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat.'] to mean she passed over mountains into Beleriand to ultimately meet Celeborn, a Sindarin Elf and kinsman of Thingol, in Doriath. There seems to be a bit of a textual issue with Galadriel visiting Finrod in Nargothrond, but I also accept the published Silmarillion that she did visit him. After that is seems we have Galadriel in Thingol's realm, learning from Melian and having a life with Celeborn there until the Sack of Doriath, based on the brief line [Unfinished Tales] that Celeborn 'escaped the sack of Doriath'. Second Age Galadriel has been specially banned from Aman for her role in the Rebellion. She proudly refuses to return anyway [RGEO] Year 1 Foundation of Lindon and Grey Havens. Gil-galad, son of Arothir son of Angrod, dwells in North Lindon as High King. Celeborn is given a fief to rule in South Lindon, with many Sindar [Of Dwarves And Men] 750 Eregion founded by the Noldor. Celebrimbor the Feanorean is Lord. This Noldorin migration is based on learning that mithril had been discovered in Moria [Appendix B]. At some point Galadriel passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn and went to Eregion [RGEO] According to one version of the story [internally] at some point before Annatar deluded the Smiths of Eregion [sometime before year 1200 I guess], Celebrimbor makes the Elessar for Galadriel [here I reject that she came from Greenwood to Eregion to speak to Celebrimbor] Before the building of Barad-dur [c. year 1000] Amdir migrates to Lindorinand and rules the Silvan folk there. 1693 the Three Rings are hidden [Appendix B] At this time perhaps Galadriel recieves Nenya, and possibly travels to Lindon with the other two Rings. One of the details from Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn that I do note concerns her advice to Celebrimbor to send the Three away, far from Eregion where Sauron believed them to be. If this is so, and she received Nenya, it might be thought that she herself passed to Lindon at this time. Either that or Nerwen remains in Eregion at this point -- as here we have contemporary but seemingly conflicting statements -- one being that Celeborn ultimately joined Galadriel in Lindon after fortifying Lothlorien, the other being that they both passed to Lorien after Eregion was destroyed. 1695 Sauron invades Eriador. 1697 Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. Gates of Moria are shut. Elrond reteats with remnant of the Noldor. Celeborn passes to Lindorinand to fortify it. 1701 Sauron driven out of Eriador. Again, Celeborn either joins Galadriel in Lindon, or, both having passed to Lindorinand at the destruction of Eregion [UT note], they both remain in the realm of Amdir for a time [I wish I could tell which note was later here, to help me chose one or the other]. If both Galadriel and Celeborn are in Lindorinand, they return to Lindon at some point [making some use of the note where Celeborn rejoins Galadriel in Lindon at least]. And Galadriel and Celeborn return to Lindorinand twice before the Last Alliance [UT note]. During one of these two visits Galadriel begins the planting of mallorn trees in Lindorinand. Possibly all we need is a 'mere' 500 years for the trees to become grown enough for Cerin Amroth in the future, for example, or at least it was said in UT [A description of Numenor] that in Numenor '... the mighty tree malinorne, reaching after five centuries a height scarce less than it achieved in Eressea itself.'] Of course that's Numenor, but it could be that in 500 years the mallorn will grow to its highest height in Middle-earth as well, whatever that is [is it noted? I can't recall]. 3431 Gil-galad and Elendil march to Imladris before the Last Alliance. Celebrian and Galadriel possibly go at least this far with Celeborn, so Elrond and Celebrian possibly meet at this point [trying to get them together before TA 109 anyway]. 3441 Sauron overthrown. Amdir had been slain in 3434 [at the Battle of Dagorlad] . Second Age ends. Amdir's son Amroth, King of the Silvan Realm. Third Age Elrond returns to Imladris [in my timeline] meeting Celebrian again. Possibly at this time they fall in love. Galadriel and Celeborn either remain in Imladris with Celebrian, or the family returns to Lindon at some point. 109 Elrond weds Celebrian [in Imladris in any case I would say, with Celeborn and Galadriel present]. c. 1000 the Istari arrive in Middle-earth. According to another internal version of The Elessar, at some point Olorin brings the jewel to Galadriel [here I again reject that she lived in Greenwood the Great at this point]. Despite that she can employ Nenya at this time, if desired, according to this version Galadriel appears to desire the land about her to be preserved. 1050 a shadow falls on Greenwood. c. 1100 the Wise discover that an evil power has made a stronghold at Dol Guldur. At some point between c. 1100 and c. 1300 Galadriel becomes filled with foreboding and with Celeborn she journeys to Lorien, staying long with Amroth, being especially concerned to learn news of the growing shadow in Mirkwood and the stronghold at Dol Guldur [and see note on mallorn trees below]. Celeborn and Galadriel take long journeys of enquiry in Rhovanion, and ultimately pass over the Misty Mountains to Imladris and dwell there for many years [UT note, Artanis' daughter now probably dwells in Imladris after all, rather than Lindon] c. 1300 Evil things begin to multiply again. Orcs increase in the Misty Mountains [Appendix B, and this is why I put the return from Rhovanion over the mountains somewhere before this date]. 1981 Nain I slain. Dwarves flee Moria. Amroth and Nimrodel lost. Celeborn and Galadriel take up the government of Loriand or Lorinand, by this time called so because of the golden mallorn trees. Galadriel associates the name Lori(n)and [which itself had altered from earlier Lindorinand due to the golden trees] with Quenya Lorien, itself prefixed with Sindarin loth 'flower' at some point, resulting in Lothlorien among other names. And so on, as in The Lord of the Rings. Note on mallorn trees At this point in the Third Age, c. 1100, Galadriel could plant the mallorn trees as well, and here Nenya is available. Although the Three were directed to the preservation of beauty, they might also be included in: 'But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor.' [letter 131 notes the chief power of all the rings alike was that of preservation, but also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor]. Even if the trees take 500 years to grow to full height [which is not certain really], Cerin Amroth has plenty of time to be considered the heart of the old realm in my opinion, and from around TA 1600 to 1981 the mallorns might be full grown. However this seems to disagree with a note [UT] that has Amroth's flet being built after about 1,000 years in the Third Age, to watch Dol Guldur at first, for the Trees atop the mound should arguably be quite tall by c. 1100 for him to build a flet therein [instead of being planted at this time] -- although in the late tale of Amroth and Nimrodel itself, it is simply said that Amroth had many years of peace after the defeat of Sauron, and he lived after the manner of the Silvan Elves and '... housed in the tall trees of a great green mound, ever after called Cerin Amroth.'* So perhaps his flet need not have begun as a watch on Dol Guldur. But Amroth And Nimrodel seems to suggest (in my opinion) that the mallorn trees of Cerin Amroth should be tall somewhat early in the Third Age, and Legolas' words in The Lord of the Rings also seem to imply that the Galadhrim were living in trees before the Shadow came -- so maybe it's safer to push the planting back to the Second Age again. Or maybe go with what I think was the early concept, that the mallorn trees grew in Lorien without Galadriel, and before she arrived. not a 'green great' mound, I note Last edited by Galin; 02-06-2013 at 05:00 PM.*