View Single Post
Old 10-11-2017, 09:51 AM   #34
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 30
gandalf85 has just left Hobbiton.
Responding to both Findegil and Arcus:

1. OK, I was unaware of this spelling.

3. That's what I assumed, I just wanted to be clear.

4. There are further statements in "Laws and Customs" which I think make it far from collloquial, although it is further confused later in the essay:

"There are, however, no matters which among the Eldar only a ner can think or do, or others which only a nis is concerned. There are indeed some differences between the natural inclinations of neri and nissi, and other differences that have been established by custom (varying in place and in time, and in the several races of the Eldar)."

This implies they are capable of doing exactly the same thing, implying no physical differences. For example, olympic track records between men and women are different due to physical differences; I've always imagined this wouldn't be the case between elvish men and women. But then Tolkien states later:

"Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals."

Here Tolkien state "less difference" and not "no difference", making it more ambiguous. I guess this is just a personal idea of mine: I've always liked the idea that there are no physical differences between elven men and women, and that patriarchal ideas were developed among the elves due to cultural exchanges with humans. However, I don't really have any proof of this. Since Tolkien himself seems to be contradictory w.r.t. whether nissi and neri are identical or just less different when compared to humans, I think it makes sense to just keep the text as is.

5. Yes, I agree with not changing the text simply because we do not agree with it. I just wanted to point it out as I thought it was interesting.

And what Manwe feared is not told. I donít think he feared for himself or his safety, he feared for the demage that Melkor cold work on Ea.
This is an excellent point which I would agree with.

6. Since this is the only mention of Morwe and Nurwe I propose we keep it as is. Do we plan on making genealogical tables for Volume III? These should be very interesting.

This is more of a general question: are we only including texts which we consider to be "historically accurate"? Tolkien describes the story of Imin, Tata and Enel as "an Elvish fairytale or child's tale" and it seems to partly serve the purpose of teaching children how to count. This is an example where I think the lack of a frame actually hurts the story. I would have the teller of this story explicitly state that this is a child's tale to teach children how to count, and this explains why Imin, Tata and Enel disappear from the rest of the history. I'm not suggesting we add back in a frame, I think it was probably the right decision overall, but it makes some of the texts difficult to organize.
gandalf85 is offline   Reply With Quote