[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I feel like I've read somewhere that Tolkien blotting out Bilbo's narrative perspective during the Battle of the Five Armies is a statement on the "glory of war." The Men, Elves, and Dwarves win, but their goodness (their "glory," one might say) is not derived from their war prowess.

Well said! And actually, I think the most direct expression of this attitude is in the person of Faramir, I have just recently been rereading the second part of TT, and this struck me:

"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Númenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom."
(...)
"...[we] can scarce claim any longer the title High. We are become Middle Men, of the Twilight (...) For as the Rohirrim do, we now love war and valour as things good in themselves, both a sport and an end; and though we still hold that a warrior should have more skills and knowledge than only the craft of weapons and slaying, we esteem a warrior, nonetheless, above men of other crafts."

This, I believe, definitely proves (in the hierarchy of Tolkien's world, and I would say in this case at least, very likely in his own thinking too) the glory in battle as a thing which should not be praised the most, as those who "love war and valour as good things in themselves" are of "lower" status then the kind of Men who don't. At least this is the hierarchy among Men, and logically (since the High Men are the closest to the Elves) probably among Elves also, too. From the viewpoint of "objective good", so to say, war should probably at most serve the ends mentioned by Faramir in the first part of what I have quoted.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/in...&pagename=Arts

I found this article. It doesn't say anything about JRRT being unconcious. However, I see other instances that repeat themselves in the legendarium. It mentions the Dead Marshes in the end. Mrs. Sumner is like Rosie, Captain Evers is like Gandalf, and Tolkien himself is like Faramir. The list could go on forever.

Thanks for the find, I will definitely take a look at it.

However, I don't want to turn this into yet another thread that looks for direct parallels between the WWs and LOTR/TH/The Sil. I'm looking more for the subtle things, such as accidental references or descriptions that match an experience.

Sure. That's what I have been thinking of as well.

You could say that Sam's thoughts about the dead Haradrim in Ithilien were a reflection of Tolkien's own reaction to the War, though I'm not sure it's accidental.

Indeed; I believe that part just screams "personal experience", and once again, I believe he had even confessed to that somewhere.