Thread: Evil things
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Old 03-29-2004, 04:39 AM   #75
HerenIstarion
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Free will re:

Quote:
Eru states that none may change the music in his despite - not that none may change the Music at all. Men are not bound by the Music. If Men had no freedom to change it they too would, knowingly or unknowingly, also be bound by it.
um. I reckon you missed my point. I was driving at total freedom of Men yet already contained in the Music, for Music contains everything. Men leave boundaries of Arda and go out of the Music when they die, but while they live, they are inside Music, and whatever change they may bring about is already in it (from eru's point of view at least, for He is omniscient). Why such a thing does not eliminate their, once again, total freedom, is [crudely] given mental image to above

Quote:
Thing is, I can't see Tolkien creating a world where true free will did not exist - at least for Men
No need to hurt one's eyes , for both elves and men are given free will. Thing is, it is defined by the Music, not forced by it.

Magic re:

Quote:
If only certain individuals posess an ability it is not 'normal' because its not the 'norm'
As far as I may judge, there is no such a thing as norm. Let us suppose, I'm bad at poetry, but I'm good at cookery, whilst some other chap may be my opposite. Than I will be more agile and skilled with pan than with pen, and, even though we both can be tought each other's crafts, the point is in gift, and he will never make omelets of the refined taste I'm able of contriving, while my sonnets will never acquire such a flavour as his may boast of.

That is what is given. But what counts is application. If I use my omelets to throw at people and hurt them, and he his sonnets to inspire bloodshed and intolerance or whatever, we both are misapplying our natural abilities to achieve improper ends. And while omelets and sonnets are not bad things in themselves, we give them bad name in the case

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is the individual acting out of their own nature, or against it?
I should rather say, as with gift to cook omelets and write sonnets, person's nature is what is given him/her (what with all matter of Arda already Marred by Morgoth). What he/she does with it is what counts. And to measure propriety of actions against there is a moral law, which is expressed with Tolkien as follows:

Quote:
by Aragorn

'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'

Quote:
by Hama

'Yet in doubt a man of worth will trust to his own wisdom
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Last edited by HerenIstarion; 04-26-2005 at 12:06 AM. Reason: typos
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