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Old 12-17-2012, 06:52 AM   #138
elbenprincess
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
elbenprincess has just left Hobbiton.
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Provided many other quotes saying he alone remembered the ancient stories etc.
I canīt remember reading such a quote provided by you and anyway how can he alone remember the anchient stories better or more in detail, than a more ancient person (Galadriel) or do you mean the quote, that his house represents lore? That is hardly convincing.

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The situation is different from Elrond, who seems to have remained to help assure in the age of Men.
Galadriel stayed too becase she wanted see Sauron fall and because Men were important to her. Of course she was banned but even if not, she would not leave ME.

Quote:
But eventually Galadriel became aware that Sauron again, as in the ancient days of the captivity of Melkor, had been left behind. Or rather, since Sauron had as yet no single name, and his operations had not been perceived to proceed from a single evil spirit, prime servant of Melkor, she perceived that there was an evil controlling purpose abroad in the world, and that it seemed to proceed from a source further to the East, beyond Eriador and the Misty Mountains
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In any case, Galadriel was more far-sighted in this than Celeborn; and she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from "the residue of evil" that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him
So, she had the same reason to stay as Elrond.

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Do you have any idea what happened in the 2nd age? Sauron came in person to Rivendell and could not overthrow it. In fact he decided to go and destroy Lindon, because he STILL could not destroy Rivendell.
Actually I thought I know pretty much what happened in the 2nd age but that Sauron came in person to Rivendell is new to me. I searched the Sil and the Internet but I couldnīt find that it was Sauron himself, I just found that:

Quote:
Angered by this setback, Sauron loosed the hordes of Mordor, six hundred years in the building, and overran Eriador, destroying the land of Eregion where the Rings were made. The Elves called on Númenor for aid, though, and the army of Tar-Minastir put Sauron's forces to rout. After this reverse, Sauron sought instead to build power in the eastern countries, and left the Westlands in peace for many centuries.
True, Elrond and his troops were able to drive Saurons host away, but that happened in many other regions of ME also under Gil-galad, the havens for example were safed. I think the defeat of Saurons troops was more a military act and not very much magic (the rings were not made for war anyway). Itīs not like in the third age, where not many elves were left, Elrond would have an army in the second age.

I donīt found anything that indicates that Sauron was in Rivendel.

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Many more refugees joined Elrond's host as Sauron ravaged Eriador during the course of the war. By S.A. 1700, Imladris, despite being besieged, was the only part of Eriador not under Sauron's control. It was liberated after Gil-galad's forces, strengthened by the armament sent by Tar-Minastir, routed Sauron's armies and drove him out of Eriador.
Yes, it says that Rivendel was besieged but not that Sauron was there in person and could not enter.

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In fact he decided to go and destroy Lindon, because he STILL could not destroy Rivendell.
He wanted to destroy Lindon anyway, together with the havens, independent of Rivedell.

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Sauron besieged Imladris, battled Moria and Lothlórien, and pushed further into Gil-galad's realm.
He can hardy be everywhere at the same time, so if it says Saruron besieged Imladris it would be his troops in his name, unless there is a quote which says "Sauron was in person in Rivendel".

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You simply don't want to see all the evidence indicating Elrond was the greater power.
There is no indication that he is the greatest power, unless you accept this "expecially Elrond" in this one letter. But that letter is debatable, many have differnet opinions regarding that. Also again, itīs vague.

Quote:
This only would he say, that Imladris was of old the name among the Elves of a far northern dale, where Elrond the Halfelven dwelt, greatest of lore-masters” (LotR: 275)
-Boromir

It almost logic that Elrond would be considered the greatest loremaster, he is the most well known, while hardly no one knows Galadriel or has a completely wrong image about her.

In this case I canīt take Bormiers/Denethors opinion serious. Had Gandalf said it, then it wold be another matter but that is not the same as the "not even Elrond can fortell!

I have no problem accepting it but all the quotes you provided one can interpret differntly, there is no explicit statement, such as "Elrond was the greatest power besides the Maiar in ME" or something like that.

Elrond can never be superior to the equal of Feanor, (Galadriel) cause Feanor was the mightiest of the children of Eru (save Luthien). The top 3 of Erus children are definite!

Number 2 and 3 are Feanor and Galadriel, number 1 is Luthien.

Quote:
'These two kinsfolk, the greatest of the Eldar of Valinor,* were unfriends for ever.'

*Who together with the greatest of all the Eldar, Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Elu Thingol, are the chief matter of the legends and histories of the Elves.
That I would call a explicit statement. There is no wiggle room.

Luthien, Feanor and Galadriel are the chief matter of the legends and histories of the elves.

Last edited by elbenprincess; 12-17-2012 at 07:53 AM.
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