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Old 08-07-2017, 11:26 PM   #13
Balfrog
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 87
Balfrog has just left Hobbiton.
Morthoron

It's probably worthwhile you taking a look or re-look at Tolkien's essay: Sir Gawain and The Green Knight, and his book with E.V. Gordon. It would also be useful for you to peruse H&S Chronology and understand how often Tolkien taught the subject. Once digested, you'll understand that a balanced view would have been something like:

'Wow – Tolkien really had a great deal of expertise on this medieval text. There's a good chance a 'green girdle' would have meant a great deal to him.'

You're argument that it's just two words puts a fallacious spin on the matter: So 'One Ring' or an 'Otter's whiskers' would have meant nothing to him either, eh?

Slinking into a corner and being unable to admit the above is disappointing – yet not unexpected. As usual you side-step most of my responses. Sure you can keep kidding yourself … randomly chosen color, associated to a random piece of clothing, all inserted into an existing text in a moment of amnesia, huh. However if you were truly honest with yourself - using your own words:

“The more realistic, less specious consideration is”

Ms. Seth's viewpoint. Funny how you only want to use that argument when it suits you!


I simply use common sense
On this matter – I'm still waiting!


Does Bombadil have a girdle of invincibility? No. As Glorfindel noted, "I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First, and then Night will come." Tolkien never implied Bombadil was invincible, that is not the character's raison d'ętre.

Oh dear – you've failed to perceive magical items can have their limitations. Within the only specified bounds we know:
“For whoever goes girdled with this green riband, while he keeps it well clasped closely about him, there is none so hardy under heaven that to hew him were able; for he could not be killed by any cunning of hand.”
Tolkien's translation of SGGK
even wearing a green girdle Tom may be slain. One way which does not involve 'hands' could be through song. Perhaps Sauron's songs of power might be more powerful than Tom's. And there again – I'm sure Sauron would have had evil creatures at his command capable of slaying fleshly folk that needn't employ, or indeed didn't have, 'hands'.

Again, you've missed the symbolism of the green girdle in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" completely (not surprising, considering the Snark hunts you engage in).
Regardless of what your own perception is of the symbolic significance of the 'green girdle' in Sir Gawain & The Green Knight, let's be clear it is not the only one in the world. Or do you deem yourself to be an expert on SGGK? Sorry – I don't agree with 'it's my way or the highway' approach.

Does Bombadil need a girdle of invincibility? No.
Nonsense – how do you know what he does or does not need? Has M-e been free of danger throughout Tom's existence in Arda? Answer yes or no? Bet you won't be able to bring yourself to say no.

Upon whom exactly does he wish to exert his invincibility, since a girdle of invincibility implies a martial stance that Bombadil in no way has an interest in. He is not bellicose; in fact, he allows Old Man Willow his space, and does not even attack the Barrow Wights in a conventional sense.
More nonsense – in the space of a few days he deals with OMW and obliterates the Wight. How do you know what evil threats TB has had to deal with over the Ages. It's not as if there have been no wars on his borders.


Does Bombadil wear a girdle of invincibility? Oh, of course, right along with his yellow boots of uber trajectory and his ever-expanding blue jacket of excessive caloric-intake. Because Goldberry sews nuclear-powered clothes.

Adds nothing. You've yet to realize how much involvement Tolkien had with classic fairy tale. Try reading and digesting Tolkien On Fairy-stories by Flieger and Anderson, and then the light bulb might go on.


Does the original author ever have Gawain actually use the green girdle of invincibility in battle against the Green Knight?
This statement makes no sense. There was no battle. There was a beheading match agreed to in an oral contract. Are you questioning why the author didn't include a battle? You might try asking him, but you won't get an answer.

Why would the scholar Tolkien equate a badge of shame to Bombadil, who neither cares for invincibility nor wants dominion over others?
Yes, yes – we all know the 'badge of shame' thing. But what was the girdle's significance before it came to Gawain? Did Lady Bertilak wear it as a 'badge of shame'? And who had it before Lady Bertilak? What would have been more important to Tolkien – what the green girdle started out as or ended up as? Neither you or I can say for sure. So my suggestion is keep an open mind.

And Morthoron – please keep your objections coming. I look forward to opening your mind up to other vistas, and correcting you - always.
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