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littlemanpoet · 03-23-2005, 03:46 PM

Don't let the name, Old Man Willow throw you. OMW is just as much tree as the trees you insist are inherently good no matter how black their hearts (or is that a misunderstanding on my part of what you're trying to say vis-a-ve trees and inherent goodness?). The degree of OMW's sentience is not given, nor is it important.

Your quote of Elrond is unclear. You're not saying that Tolkien has him saying that moral choice is a necessity, are you? I don't think you are. If you're not, then you seem to be saying that since Elrond says there wasn't evil in the beginning, there had to be moral choice. This does not follow logically. But nonetheless, there was a moral choice: Morgoth's. He corrupted Arda. Thus evil trees did not choose it but became it by his will. Unjust? Certainly. But it reflects reality.

I don't think the problem is as vexed as you seem to think. LotR is the story of war. The Ents get caught up in war. This moves the discussion in the direction of Just Cause, about which I'm sure there are opinions many and varied. But the Ents are an army whereas OMW is at best vigilante and at worst premeditatedly (at least, as much as a tree can be) harmful.

03-23-2005, 03:46 PM	#32
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	It seems, Bêthberry, your thread has been hijacked! Don't let the name, Old Man Willow throw you. OMW is just as much tree as the trees you insist are inherently good no matter how black their hearts (or is that a misunderstanding on my part of what you're trying to say vis-a-ve trees and inherent goodness?). The degree of OMW's sentience is not given, nor is it important. Your quote of Elrond is unclear. You're not saying that Tolkien has him saying that moral choice is a necessity, are you? I don't think you are. If you're not, then you seem to be saying that since Elrond says there wasn't evil in the beginning, there had to be moral choice. This does not follow logically. But nonetheless, there was a moral choice: Morgoth's. He corrupted Arda. Thus evil trees did not choose it but became it by his will. Unjust? Certainly. But it reflects reality. I don't think the problem is as vexed as you seem to think. LotR is the story of war. The Ents get caught up in war. This moves the discussion in the direction of Just Cause, about which I'm sure there are opinions many and varied. But the Ents are an army whereas OMW is at best vigilante and at worst premeditatedly (at least, as much as a tree can be) harmful.