View Single Post
Old 02-24-2006, 09:56 AM   #42
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,685
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
For what you ask? Kuru, you *have* forgotten the Fen of Serech, haven't you?
The ingratitude was all on Hurin’s part. You forget that he owed Turgon his life because Turgon set aside the law of his kingdom (twice) by not killing Hurin and then by letting him go free. Hurin repays Turgon by exposing his kingdom to ruin. If that is not ingratitude and betrayal, I don’t know what is.

Note that Hurin owed a personal debt to Turgon. The Fen of Serech was a state matter where the lords of Dor-lomin willingly sacrificed themselves to allow the king of Gondolin to escape. This hardly necessitates a personal response by the king later if it puts his kingdom in danger, as Numenorean has already said.

Quote:
I always wonder why, if the Noldor are there to make war, Turgon decides instead to hide.
Because Ulmo told him to. The real puzzle is why he decided to come out again.

Quote:
I also don't think Aredhel was empty-headed or silly.
I’m afraid I have to categorically disagree with your definitions of them then.

Quote:
Like a lot of women she naturally reacted against the 'protection' that was in fact a restriction.
Then she should not have gone with Turgon in the first place but should have gone to her brother or her father. I’m sure Turgon would have gladly allowed this before she knew the location of his secret kingdom.

And why are you so persistent in overlooking the fact that Aredhel’s little life was not the only one devastated by her actions. That is why she is so empty-headed and silly. Not that her behavior wasn’t dumb on her own behalf, she just refused to acknowledge that there were other things in the world more important than she was and she wrought all sorts of destruction in the wake of her thoughtless frolics.

Quote:
And it was not just Aredhel who Turgon displayed arrogance towards, he was also like this with Eol.
I am confused...

Quote:
But Turgon treated him with honour, and rose up and would take his hand; and he said: “Welcome, kinsman, for so I hold you. Here you shall dwell at your pleasure save only that you must here abide and depart not from my kingdom; for it is my law that none who finds the way hither shall depart.”
It was only after Eöl behaved quite rudely that Turgon became surly in turn. Again, he had a whole lot of other people to think about and protect. His earlier leave from his kingdom was already causing all kinds of problems. Why should he do it again?

Quote:
If only Finrod had some of Turgon's haughty snobbery, his kingdom would have lasted longer
I think you misunderstand the circumstance a little. For one thing, it wasn’t Finrod who lost the kingdom. He only lost his life. Beren wasn’t being trailed by the spies of the enemy nor had he been in Morgoth’s hands for a few decades. Finrod had made a promise. Turgon made no promise of reciprocation to Hurin.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

Last edited by Kuruharan; 06-06-2017 at 02:24 PM.
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote