Thread: Orcs
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:06 PM   #13
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 129
Nils has just left Hobbiton.


As Orogaerion has correctly pointed out, it was Eru who gave life to the Dwarves. Aule merely created their bodies.

i'm open to other opinions so what is yours?
It is my opinion that we should try to take Tolkien's later opinions on the matter and accept them above those printed in the Silmarillion.

From Morgoth's Ring

This then, as it may appear, was my father's final view of the question: Orcs were bred from Men, and if 'the conception in mind of the Orcs may go far back into the night of Melkor's thought' it was Sauron who, during the ages of Melkor's captivity in Aman, brought into being the black armies that were available to his Master when he returned.
But, as always, it is not quite so simple. Accompanying one copy of the typescript of this essay are some pages in manuscript for which my father used the blank reverse sides of papers provided by the publishers dated 10 November 1969. These pages carry two notes on the 'Orcs' essay: one, discussing the spelling of the word orc, is given on p. 422; the other is a note arising from something in the essay which is not indicated, but which is obviously the passage on p. 417 discussing the puppet-like nature inevitable in creatures brought into being by one of the great Powers themselves: the note was intended to stand in relation to the words 'But the Orcs were not of this kind'.

Then there is this earlier quote

In summary: I think it must be assumed that 'talking' is not necessarily the sign of the possession of a 'rational soul' or fea. The Orcs were beasts of humanized shape (to mock Men and Elves) deliberatley perverted/converted into a more close resemblance to Men.

I believe that Tolkien saw two different origins for Orcs: Maiar and beasts. As quoted above, I believe that Tolkien intended Orcs to have been the product of breeding Men with beasts. I guess it is possible that the Maiar type Orcs could have bred with humans too.

I had another theory about Orc origins that I went into in the thread:

Breeding for fear
For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned

~Matthew 12:37
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