View Single Post
Old 03-01-2019, 10:21 AM   #9
denethorthefirst
Haunting Spirit
 
denethorthefirst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 81
denethorthefirst has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
It is entirely possible that Cirion was continuing the Stewards' habit of claiming more authority than he rightfully had. Pelendur started this by rejecting Arvedui's claim to the throne for the far weaker one of General Earnil (and by making his own post hereditary, which seems likely to have been a condition of accepting Earnil's claim); Mardil 'the Faithful' continued it by seizing the throne in all but name when Earnur vanished, and ultimately Denethor II capped the whole thing by attempting to prevent the accession of High King Elessar to the throne. It would not be surprising if Cirion - who was already in the middle of selling off a chunk of Gondor to buy an alliance, and relocating the most sacred site in the nation - didn't quite have the divine authority he asserted he did.
I can't really support your judgement of Cirion. I always had the impression that he was a very wise, competent and responsible Steward. In my opinion the gifting of Calenardhon was not a "selling away" (i.e. an almost treasonous dereliction of duty, at least thats almost how it comes across in your post) but a shrewd political move. Yes, it diminished the Realm, but Cirion had no choice, because Gondor was no longer able to maintain and protect that territory, it had neither the population nor the military manpower, and the Rohirrim were more or less in possession of that territory already. In a way Cirion gave something "away" that would be too costly to keep anyway - so why not "give" it to someone who will feel grateful and obligated for the "gift" (that he already possessed, because he just conquered it ...) and who will protect you in the future? Especially if that someone just saved your country from complete annihilation. It was a win-win-situation. Both countries profited from the pact, and Gondor would have surely lost the Siege of Minas Tirith without the help from Rohan.

As Zigur wrote, I too always had the impression that Cirion and Gondor acted in good faith towards Rohan. Gondor did not exploit Rohan, Gondor was not some imperialist oppressor. It was a relationship on an equal footing. Rohan acknowledged Gondor as the superior civilization, but that was not forced by Gondor. At least that is my impression regarding their relationship. Actually, the diplomatic equality is impressive considering the (even in the late Third Age) rather big gulf (in cultural advancement, technology, economy, infrastructure, military power, population numbers, etc.) between Gondor and Rohan. Its actually quite the difference compared to Numenors behavior towards the Men of Middle-Earth. Numenor would have dominated Rohan with an iron fist, it would not have regarded it as an equal.

After reading UT I did not get the impression that Cirion was overstepping his bounds or that he acted irresponsible. His invocation of Eru added the necessary weight and gravitas - and maybe he also did it a bit to impress Eorl, but there is nothing wrong with that, a bit of pomp and grandeur is always helpful in diplomacy. But that doesn't mean that the Oath was a bluff or mere theatrics, it seemed to me like an honest religious act - Cirion was not an imposter or some Easterling, he was a faithful Numenorean, he would not take the Name of Eru (and Elendil) in vain. And if I remember correctly, Tolkien wrote that the Stewards exercised "all the power of the Kings".

Last edited by denethorthefirst; 03-01-2019 at 11:05 AM.
denethorthefirst is offline   Reply With Quote