The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Alcuin · 11-02-2006, 04:11 PM

I don’t doubt that any of this would be correct if the forces of Angmar were given time to pursue those goals. I just don’t think that the sparse information that we are given concerning these events indicates that Angmar occupied Cardolan for any length of time: it looks more as if the army invaded, destroyed, and slaughtered everyone they found; in that case, the tombs were secure hiding places rather than long-term defensive works: if a few invaders entered a tomb to loot it, the people inside could kill them, and it is unlikely that the entire army fell to looting tombs: that could wait until later.

The material that we have been working with (Return of the King, “Appendix A”) says that Angmar also attacked Fornost (in post #30 in this thread, I erred by writing that “there is no mention of destruction in Arthedain”: it helps to reread everything thoroughly rather than glance over it). That indicates that the war-aim of Angmar was the complete destruction of all the Northern Dúnedain kingdoms; it was successful in destroying Rhudaur and crippling Cardolan, but not in the destruction of Arthedain.

As another argument for the destruction of the fortifications of Cardolan so that the barrows were hide-outs for some of the survivors, consider that in the penultimate northern war in the winter of III 1974-1975, most of the population of Arthedain was annihilated, so that Arthedain became a kingdom with a king but no people: the only way in which this plausibly could have been accomplished is if the inhabitants were caught and killed in a few places, which implies that the Dúnedain fortifications, especially Fornost Erain, fell during siege and the inhabitants and refuges inside were killed by invaders. In fact we know that Fornost was captured and the only surviving Dúnedain fled to Lindon in that last war of 1974-75.

Finally, the major battle in the war of 1409 before the defeat of Angmar at Fornost with the assistance of the Elves of Lindon and Lórien was the fall of Amon Sûl. We often think of Amon Sûl as a single tower, but Aragorn’s approach to the main ruins leading Frodo and his companions traveled along ruined works and partially concealed roads, indicating that Amon Sûl consisted not of a single tower but also of considerable defensive works around it. If Cardolan and Arthedain committed a significant part of their forces to this battle and lost, then the speed and ferocity of the advance of Angmar into Cardolan and then to Fornost can be explained: the only people who survived in Cardolan were those who hid in the tombs or fled into the forests. The text says that “a remnant” of the Dúnedain of Cardolan survived, indicating that the majority of them were killed.

11-02-2006, 04:11 PM	#33
Alcuin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Nurn Posts: 73	I don’t doubt that any of this would be correct if the forces of Angmar were given time to pursue those goals. I just don’t think that the sparse information that we are given concerning these events indicates that Angmar occupied Cardolan for any length of time: it looks more as if the army invaded, destroyed, and slaughtered everyone they found; in that case, the tombs were secure hiding places rather than long-term defensive works: if a few invaders entered a tomb to loot it, the people inside could kill them, and it is unlikely that the entire army fell to looting tombs: that could wait until later. The material that we have been working with (Return of the King, “Appendix A”) says that Angmar also attacked Fornost (in post #30 in this thread, I erred by writing that “there is no mention of destruction in Arthedain”: it helps to reread everything thoroughly rather than glance over it). That indicates that the war-aim of Angmar was the complete destruction of all the Northern Dúnedain kingdoms; it was successful in destroying Rhudaur and crippling Cardolan, but not in the destruction of Arthedain. As another argument for the destruction of the fortifications of Cardolan so that the barrows were hide-outs for some of the survivors, consider that in the penultimate northern war in the winter of III 1974-1975, most of the population of Arthedain was annihilated, so that Arthedain became a kingdom with a king but no people: the only way in which this plausibly could have been accomplished is if the inhabitants were caught and killed in a few places, which implies that the Dúnedain fortifications, especially Fornost Erain, fell during siege and the inhabitants and refuges inside were killed by invaders. In fact we know that Fornost was captured and the only surviving Dúnedain fled to Lindon in that last war of 1974-75. Finally, the major battle in the war of 1409 before the defeat of Angmar at Fornost with the assistance of the Elves of Lindon and Lórien was the fall of Amon Sûl. We often think of Amon Sûl as a single tower, but Aragorn’s approach to the main ruins leading Frodo and his companions traveled along ruined works and partially concealed roads, indicating that Amon Sûl consisted not of a single tower but also of considerable defensive works around it. If Cardolan and Arthedain committed a significant part of their forces to this battle and lost, then the speed and ferocity of the advance of Angmar into Cardolan and then to Fornost can be explained: the only people who survived in Cardolan were those who hid in the tombs or fled into the forests. The text says that “a remnant” of the Dúnedain of Cardolan survived, indicating that the majority of them were killed.