Lhunardawen -- wonderful points about the light-and-hope mystical unity!
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Originally Posted by Rumil
... little channels through which streams of clear running water flowed. I don't precisely know why, but I find the idea really attractive.
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Agreed!
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Originally Posted by Rumil
The second one was about the honesty and 'simplicity' (by which I mean straightforwardness and honour rather than stupidity) shown by both the Gate-guard at Edoras and Hama, in contrast to Wormtongue. In the land of the honest is the crooked man always going to become Prime-Minister?
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The Shire seems to have evaded this at least in the long run. But I think the pattern occurs all too often in real life...
It's interesting to read in the thread how many folk were disapppointed in Aragorn's behavior at Theoden's doorway. How dangerous was Anduril? Was Aragorn's statement 'death hshall come to any man' for real, or was Anduril just a normal sword?
What about in the sword? Aragorn says by way of warning that
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Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil’s sword save Elendil’s heir.
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Telchar was a first-age dwarven smith from Nogrod, in the Blue Mountains, and he made several cool things including the helmet that eventually Turin wore, and the knife that Beren used to cut the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. (Too bad it snapped on the second try... hmmm, Narsil broke too...) Isildur cursed the faithless dead; maybe he cursed the shards after his father's death. Maybe Isildur cursed the shards as a form of protecting them after his father's death.
At Rivendell, Narsil was re-forged by elven-smiths, who added symbols & runes of power:
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The Sword of Elendil was forged anew by Elvish smiths, and on its blade was traced a device of seven stars set between the crescent Moon and the rayed Sun, and about them was written many runes; for Aragorn son of Arathorn was going to war upon the marches of Mordor. Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold, and its edge was hard and keen. And Aragorn gave it a new name and called it Andúril, Flame of the West.
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Now, elves can do some nifty work. The Gondolin elves made blades that glowed when Orcs came around (Glamdring, Sting.) They might have put a protective spell on it.
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and she gave him a sheath that had been made to fit his sword. It was overlaid with a tracery of flowers and leaves wrought of silver and gold, and on it were set in elven runes formed of many gems the name Andúril and the lineage of the sword.
‘The blade that is drawn from this sheath shall not be stained or broken even in defeat,’ she said.
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So even in the scabbard, there was elvish power; there's runes of power on the blade; amazing heritage. Why would we doubt that the curse/ protective spell was real?
Aragorn isn't the type to lightly curse someone, especially a stranger, so I doubt he was making the curse up himself on the spot. Nor would Aragorn lie. As I've said before, he doesn't know how to lie; he'd choke if he tried.
So there's a spell of some sort on the sword; and he's really worried about some clueless, curious rider handling his sword and dropping dead. He mutters the sword's lineage and power to Hama, gets Hama's wide-eyed promise that nobody will touch it, and he's satisfied.
I stand by my notes. I think he was acting in an attempt to protect the unknowing, hesitant to declare himself quite yet, worried that someone might pick up and inspect an interesting and ancient sword, maybe even draw it out of curiousity, and invoke some curse on their own heads without intending it.
Other comments...
Fordie: Dude!! Nice connection between tapestries and webs!!
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Originally Posted by davem
The way I see this scene is that Aragorn is not the King of Rohan, nor will he be the King of Rohan.
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Very valid point, and so is this:
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I say it takes a better King to acknowledge his less powerful neighbours' right to independence...
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Aiwendil, fascinating and excellent points connecting Aragorn with Beowulf and Heorot with Meduseld. Sounds perfectly plausible to me!
davem, biblically the snake is matched to Satan in the garden of eden; but in the new testament, the terms "snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy" are a broad, generalized reference to the demonic. I think Gandalf is simply pointing out that Grima's alliance is to the darkness, not to the light; Grima isn't Melkor, nor is he Sauron. But through Saruman, Grima is a servant of Melkor and Sauron, whether he realises it or not.
Interesting point about shadows & deliverance...
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Originally Posted by Lhunardawen
Eowyn will stand behind the king and support him despite the circumstances and his faulty decisions; and two, she has a greater authority in Rohan than Grima thinks he does
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Nice point!
Lalwende-- interesting picture of foggy rolling fields... nice. To me that says "Barrow-Downs" or "North Downs." I picture Rohan as (cough) the great plains of America... don't shoot me.
