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Old 10-20-2002, 08:08 AM   #14
The Squatter of Amon Rdh
Spectre of Decay
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Pipe Far and Loathing

*Pushes through the debate about the debate in order to join in with the original debate*

"Deep Bucket" indeed. What is the world coming to?

I think that Telchar's point about separation from the Fellowship demanding more cunning and stamina of the two Hobbits is more convincing than the idea that a couple of mouthfuls of the Orc-draught could work a change on their personalities. Even the Elves don't make something that potent.
It also occurs that it wouldn't fit with the apparent ethos of The Lord of the Rings for characters to mature and develop spiritually as a result of eating and drinking things. I think that Tolkien much preferred to show personal growth as the result of experience, and who had more opportunity and room for growth than Merry and Pippin?

My view is that the effects of Lembas were indeed largely spiritual: Gollum, for example, wouldn't touch it, which in my opinion is a result of his having carried the Ring for so very long. Essentially the impoverishment of his spirit makes the virtues of the Waybread seem unpleasant to him. In fact all things made by the Elves seem to have some sort of spiritual virtue about them that the spiritually impoverished find off-putting (note the disturbing effects of the Elven rope); and I think that it's true to say that all items seem to reflect the inherent characteristics of the person, and therefore the race, that fashioned them.

This being so, in my view the defining nature of Orcs is an absence of spirit: they seem concerned only with earthly desires and drives, which to my mind is an argument in favour of the Orc-draught being a physical rather than a spiritual stimulant, and as temporary as one might expect of something that takes immediate effect. What do Orcs need with something that refreshes their spirits? Sounds like pansy Elvish talk to me.

Another case in point for the idea that draughts and foodstuffs reflect the natures of the races that produce them is that of the Ent-draughts. Like the Ents, their effects are slow and patient; but they are also strong and long-lasting. My thought is that to an Ent these effects might seem temporary as well, but I'm sure that most things seem a little rushed and short-lived to an Ent.
Man kenuva mtim' andne?

Last edited by The Squatter of Amon Rdh; 03-09-2007 at 12:27 PM. Reason: Tidying up code from old forums. Added a title
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