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Old 05-26-2016, 02:38 AM   #17
Gothmog, LoB
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Join Date: May 2016
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@Morthoron:

I think we are not on the same page. I'm not trying to diminish Galadriel's power or status. If Tolkien calls her queen then she was a queen. And this also no chauvinist attitude - I'm actually motivated from a feminist perspective there because the thing I'm trying to point out is that even the few strong female figures in Tolkien's work have to stick to the established gender rules, and that means that wives defer to their husbands.

There is a trait in the work that great male heroes (Beren, Tuor, Aragorn) claim female spouses as prices for their great deeds that are nobler and more powerful than they are. I really think you can integrate both Elwe-Melian and Celeborn-Galadriel into this whole pattern.

I'd always concede that at least the LotR-Galadriel and the one in the Later Quenta Silmarillion comes closest to breaking the pattern and being more than a price for her husband. By comparison to Melian, Lúthien, and Arwn she is much more active and man-like (that is also made clear in her name) But this is mostly because Celeborn isn't a hero the story is focusing on. Galadriel is much more important for the narratives she shows up than he is.

And, of course, Galadriel has to be humbled and eventually overcome her man-like qualities. Just as Éowyn cannot remain a shield-maiden of Rohan. She has to become a housewife and give birth to Faramir's children.

Just check Galadriel's words when she passes her final test: ‘I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.’ 'Remaining Galadriel' can be seen as her giving up all her grand dreams she has once had as Nerwen in her youth. There is not much left of the 'man-maiden' of old, or is there?

Not to mention that, you know, the very name 'Nerwen' confirms that there are fixed gender roles in Tolkien's world and it is unusual/not the rule that a woman fancies herself to be a man or do stuff a man would do. Else Galadriel's mother-name would have been something else, say, something like 'great woman' or 'strong woman' or 'great queen'.

My question is whether a female ruler - regardless how powerful she might be in spirit, word, or deed - can fulfill the same role as a man in the same position (especially if she is married herself)?

I'm not sure about that. Perhaps one can see Galadriel as the sole (or at least partial) exception, but I'm not really convinced that this is the case.

The examples you cited stress the importance of Galadriel in the stories - and I never doubted any of that. But I'm not sure they touch upon what I meant. And that's the question whether Galadriel can, politically, play a more important role at her husband's court even if we agree she is more powerful, wiser, stronger, whatever. The fact remains that she is a woman, not a man.
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