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Old 10-08-2007, 01:54 PM   #76
obloquy
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The phrase's meaning does not hinge upon the "an," though the "an" is there only because Tolkien meant the phrase in a certain way. The sentence structure provides a very clear picture of what Tolkien meant, but I won't try to explain it in detail. However, note that he is talking about the Witch-King receiving the "force" and the command from two separate givers, as indicated by his need to specify that the Witch-King received the command from Sauron specifically. Before and after that interjection, Sauron is not the one effecting changes in the Witch-King's stature, it is the storyteller doing so. The storyteller gives the Witch-King an added demonic force in Vol III by having him receive command of an army from Sauron. That's what the sentence says. I am not twisting the phrase's meaning, I am gleaning its meaning from its structure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
His power at that time, as it has been noted several times in this thread, last time by CSteefel, is mainly fear. That power, as The hunt for the ring, UT, informs us, cannot be in fact concealed, being the major drawback of using the nazgul.
Tolkien does not actually say this. He says this of the Nazgul, but the Witch-King is "more powerful in all ways" than the others. You're right that the fear can't be concealed: so in the example of the Witch-King revealing himself that I provided below, what would you say he was previously concealing? Remember that this happened before Vol III and the Witch-King's alleged augmentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
What still remains unaddressed is that the WK use of magic during the times he encountered Frodo is far inferior to the Pelennor Fields. It is these times that I have called into question, not when WK met informants or Gandalf. This is when he was closest to his ultimate goal in the mission, but failed to impress by magic, although it would have helped him a lot.
What magic might have helped him? A lightning sword?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight to the Ford
Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand.
That's every bit as impressive as breaking a gate, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davem
My problem with this argument is that its only a gate & doesn't need much effort to knock over if you've got a massive battering ram to hand.
I think Raynor must assume that the breaking of the gate is representative of other particular powers the Witch-King would have been stupid not to use in prior encounters. Like a magical lasso or something, I guess. davem is correct, though, and his posts have been good. As have Boromir88's: the Witch-King accomplished all manner of death and destruction (which no other Nazgul did) prior to his presence in LotR, and Tolkien's reference to an increase of stature in Vol III is relative only to the Witch-King's stature in Vol I and Vol II, not his pre-LotR stature.
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