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Old 01-26-2001, 01:58 AM   #14
lindil
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meshing and such

For the benefit of Durelen and Gwaihir and any looking on I will attempt to outline the agreed upon methods and principles which Mithadan ,Saulotus and myself hashed out as Durelen was coming on board -Mithadan will I am sure correct me if I perpetrate a gaff.



Durelen asks: &quot;I am just wondering what happens when you take from two texts and they
don't mesh just right, i.e. Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin(UT) and
FoG. I am not aware which FoG would be used(are there different forms?),
but certainly they won't be pieced together perfectly, so do we put an
editorial note in between like CRRT does in UT?

I think we have agreed upon a few possibilities.

A&gt;&gt;delete it, when in doubt ,leave it out
B&gt;&gt; see if other versions provide text at that point that could be used as linking the old ad new
C&gt;&gt; use an indentation /italicized insert [ as CRRT does w/ the lat in the 77 B&amp;L] when reffering to older tales [such as Narsilion, the lay of Leithian,FoG]

Durelen asks: &quot; I could do 5 or 7/8 but from which texts should I take?
Use the last written version [ X 2nd phase QS ] in this case and then add older details , I suggest working newer to older , to avoid incl. something in BoLT that was expressly contradicted in the later books.

I hope that inconjunction w/ the aforementioned posts of suggestion clear everything up.


I updated the Barrows rules of Order text [ to reflect a bracketingsystem designed for DoV instead of FoG.]
Our guiding principles of editing are rather straight forward.
1.&gt;&gt;&gt; we use as a base text , that which was most recently composed by JRRT [ thus X, QS phase 2 for DoV and in a couple of places in RotS, the annals of Aman also in X]
2.&gt;&gt;&gt; We use JRRt's words from the many editions of the Silm. we do not embellish phrases , create links or any other form of 'Co-Creation&quot; not because the Silm could not be improved greatly by such simple linking phrases, but because we are working w/ a project that will hopefully form the foundation of a large gathering to discuss the canon in a larger setting than we have here. And we hope that the purity of our work [ being devoid of any words other thanJRRt's] will enable to be received in a serious way by the GTIC [see:&quot; abbrev and such&quot; thread]. One change that is allowed is that of [what I think are called] proper nouns . Gnomes to Noldor , tinwelento to thingol and such.
3&gt;&gt;&gt;.A third is that we start w/ the latest text and add older details such as do not conflict w/ the known later intentions of JRRT. Thus .yes we know there was to be an expanded FoG story that would have incorporated in all liklihood the general features of the II FoG [w/ the exception of the mechanical dragon 'tanks'].
But no,Beren who was an Elf in II will be a Man [as all later versions show]
4&gt;&gt;&gt;. we will use the bracketing system [until such time as something better may be devised] and create a simple commentary to be placed at the end of each section/chapter to describe such decisions as we make to depart from the base text.



================================================== ==
BELOW ARE EXCERPTS FROM THE BARROW'S RULES OF ORDER:
================================================== ===
&quot; 3} I propose we pick a text to use as our &quot;base text &quot; [the criteria being whicH text has the most of what we think
we will keep] and # the chapters sequentially for easy reference .
4}
I don't yet know wether we want to use the base text idea [which seems like it will work well as it sounds as if 77 is available to us in it's entirety as per saulotus' instrctions] see below
I am also anticipating that we will run into CRRT's editorializing quite
quickly and this I hope will provide us w/ a model of how to adapt the
style of older texts,esp. IV and V to the tone of JRRT's later X and XI
style which seems to be the basis of whatended up in 77 .
5}
we will also hit the question , I am guessing of wether or not to keep
and use links or more than cosmetic changes that CRRT made . I will
tentatively put forth [ &amp; I expect to hear some feedback on this! ] the
idea that we seriously consider using any links he gives us that do not
create new story, but are stylistic. What do you think on that? Wether
or not to use CRRT's bigger changes deserves a thread of it's own and
happily I don't think we need to cross that bridge yet ,but we will see
what the tale will bring!
======an interlude======
Upon checking through HoME to seewhich books Durelen would want [if she did not have them - see11 below ] , I was looking at X and saw that on p.256 JRRT intended to put ' Of Finwe and Miriel' into DoV. which may have been obvious to others , but was a detail I was not calculating inso this puts a pretty deep wrinkle in my chapter theory and I am now thinking maybe a sectional [i.e. looking for the natural or most convienent divisons of a given chapter ]division of labor is better.

w/ the possible addition of F&amp;M this promises to be one of the coolest chapters in a revised Silm. me thinks.
I am eagerly looking forward to our first group discussion [after we have all read the relevant texts] .

What say ye ? [to the sectional theory]
I now return you to your regularly scheduled programing...
================
6-b***** We could use a system of bracketing that would tell
us which phrase or sentence or word came from what source , e.g.
&lt;Finwe said no&gt;* would indicate-77
{ Finwe said no} would indicate- IV
[Finwe said no] would indicate- V etc.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * (Finwe said no) would idicate - I
Finwe said no would indicate base text- X
these would run throughout our edited copies of the chapters/sections and would tell us [or anyone ] at aglance just where a given line came from.
7- I think this is the main thing missing from your versions Saulotus, a quick * * * * *
and easy way of seeing what and from whence are your changes. I propose putting the corresponding paragraph #'s of the source of each word, phrase , sentence par graph , etc. in the margin this way we would be spared choopping the text up w/ clumsy words and
abbrev. or detailed notes at the end {and instead we can have clumsy
brackets throughout the text <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ] . I am open to other suggestions here,
this just popped into my head and seemed simple and convienent
[compared to the alternatives I could imagine that is].
What say ye?
8
As to debating changes and having a system whereby we hash out our
disaggrements, I suggest that we:
A&gt;&gt;&gt; read the necesarry books in all versions making notes for group discussion
and queries esp making note of where we think the natural divisions fall and which
book should be used as a base text for each section.
B&gt;&gt;&gt; work together on a general outline while establishing our repective sections
and talking over the big bumps we know will be in the road and trying to ensure that
our independent sections will have cohesion and not really be independent at all.
C&gt;&gt;&gt;then submit our drafts of the sections to the group , automatically
soliciting feedback- which we then [ if there is any] hope is unanimously agreed on , if not the ...
D&gt;&gt;&gt; we make suggestons and debate a bit and if this does not resolve it
vote,majority rules -if we have a deadlock due to having an even # of editors we can either:
1&gt;&gt;&gt; give 2 votes to the editor of the particular paragraph [or any size section], or
2&gt;&gt;&gt; choose an 'independent' arbitrator, say Ron, if he is willing.
*************************************I think it is very important to have
some system of this type in place so thatour method of resolution is
communicative and clear and not prolonged or subject*******************
**********&quot;




END QUOTE/EDIT FROM 'BARROWS RULES OF ORDER'

hopefully this clears up any remaining confusion.If not email Mithadan or myself or post it up here.
I hope [after DoV] to put up an intro to the Silmarillion project' thread so that these points [ in all their excruciating detail<img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ] will be clear to all from the outset.
Now I am off to begin my sections 2!!!

I formally propose that we hold a council/ feast upon completion {God willing} of DoV and reorganize our goals and working procedures, as with the addition of Durelen and Gwaihir and the subtraction of Saulotus , a few things have changed.





Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 1/26/01 3:15:56 am
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The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.
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