[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Boro - of course it's not remotely like a seer lynch, and the outcome of lynching Bom wasn't any worse than any D1 where we don't catch a wolf. But after Lommy, Legate and Nog had gone to some length exhorting us all to make meaningful and accountable votes, I find it, shall we say ironic or hypocritical?, that all three of them ended up making a vote of which Legate said himself that it wouldn't tell us anything. (I'm willing to excuse Lommy, as she was under threat of lynch herself and voting to save herself, but Legate and Nog not so much.)

That explanation looks fine to me. I didn't like the scolding/shame on all of you tone, but I see your point on the hypocrisy of voting Bom based on the no random-votes business.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Boro - likewise. There is still some of his "smoothness" in him, for example like this:

That sounds sort of, how to say it, well, still too "polished" for Boro. More in the "excuse me, gentlemen, my humblest opinion is that your coat might have a bit of stain on it" style instead of "you filthy brat of Morgoth, look how messy you are!"

I'm so not following the distinctions you're making "nicer"-me and "abrasive"-me. I could see it yesterday, because I was too lazy to argue with anyone. I mean, I like being blunt and not afraid to call bull-pucky on anyone, but I'd also like to hope I'm not that much of a pompous douche. If I am, seriously guys, just backhand me or stuff a dirty sock down my throat. It's nothing you need to explain now, I'm just baffled where this idea I'm Mr. Grumpypants is coming from.

The above quote from Legate, was a reaction to me saying:

Wait a second, isn't making stronger suspicions/accusations a good thing? If nothing else it will hopefully get Nog to answer some things about his vote and late-posting yesterday. I've had the impression Nog's playing carefully so far (not sure if I'd call it sneaky, but sneaky/careful are virtually the same in meaning).

Not seeing what's "polished" about this...my explanation I'd call Nog playing "carefully", but not "sneaky"? I had noted Nog's play yesterday was careful, but I can see reasons an innocent Nog would play carefully. Eonwe used sneaky, and to me they mean essentially the same thing. But sneaky carries more negative baggage, and I was agreeing by using sneaky Eonwe was laying on serious suspicion.

Or do you mean polished in my reaction to you and Greenie going after Eonwe for his rather sudden and serious Nogrod suspicion? How harsh do I really have to be there? I'm not going to shout "what in the Morgoth are you two doing!!?" I was trying to get everyone, before taking sides to just let it play out. That is, Eonwe had made a strongly-worded case against Nog, I saw reasoning behind some of his points, and wanted to see how Nog responded. If and when he responded, I then wanted to see what Eonwe would do. Really, do I have to be anal just to say "Wait a second, let's see how this plays out."

From what I've seen out of it, blah...I'm even more conflicted about Nogrod now. There are the parts where he's defending himself and the reasoning/explanation is sound, and I can get genuine frustration at having to repeat his explanation. Like here, when he's actually defending himself, it's good:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Yes, I was mad at Bom's self-vote, especially after all the rant there had been about the signifigance of making a reasoned vote.

Yes, I entertained the idea and was unsure about what to do; whether to stick with the principle (those who do not play should be lynched so that people would know it happens and thus would not do it, or stayed out of games they have no intention to play) or whether there was chances to hit a wolf.

Yes, I did more or less talk myself out of it even if I wasn't sure on how strong grounds the suspicions I had on some people were.

Yes, after Shasta started pressing with it - and it kind of opened out as a real possibility when some others also voiced their possible interest in doing it - I started rethinking it as a real option. I mean it's stupid to vote for a non-player if you're the only one to do that.

But then you forget what I aready told earlier - and you can check it if you wish.

I wished to have a discussion as to whom to vote, in the end there, like 15 minutes before the DL, got a phone-call from my colleague, and when it was done, like 10 minutes to the DL, people had already started voting for Bom and there was no reasonable scenario left but to join (no ties and thus double lynches). Picking up enough votes to lynch someone else at that moment was basically impossible.

I'm sensing the honesty in his explanation about his vote yesterday, as well as the frustration from having to repeat it several times today. But the parts where he's not defending his actions, are shouting out wolf...they look bad. Post 199 looks real bad:

G55 starts the Day with a full-frontal attack on me, which attack I find manufactured to say it nicely.

Eönwë enters the scene later with a full-frontal attack on me, which attack I have hard times calling even manufactured.

Now a bit more impatient soul might think you guys have decided last Night to go after me toDay and get me lynched, maybe making a deal on the issues each one would write as their own "cases" during the Night.

So, Eonwe and G55 start out with cases against you, really the "impatient soul" paragraph is unecessary. I mean you must be calling yourself an "impatient soul," because you yourself are considering some convoluted wolf-night-scheme to come after you today. Oh right, only an impatient soul would consider that option...that very option that you just threw out as an option, but you of course don't think is a viable scenario. Then next paragraph, somehow is just a further explanation of how it's just oh so tempting to believe both Eonwe and G55 night-plotted against you:

But there are four wolves and I must say I'm totally confused if your mates wouldn't then have told you two to act a bit more wisely as that looks just terrible. So I'm tempted to look at these two as two separate bursts coming from their own motivations, even if I must say the temptation to look them as a wolf-duo trying their best (which isn't a lot, sorry) is compelling.

So this very scenario of a wolf-duo between G55 and Eonwe, which you seem to be saying is unlikely (?) you just spent two paragraphs saying "I don't think this is likely, only an impatient soul would think that's the case, but it's such a tempting option...yes...oh it's tempting to believe...I'm trying to resist believing it...but it's tempting." Now tell me that does NOT look like an "I don't care if either of these two are lynched as long as it's not me?" post.

I can see G55 making the attack half as a self-defence, but it is still quite over the top (and could be either). Steve I have harder time of figuring out why, unless it was decided already earlier that should be done. I mean unless that was not pre-planned, then I must have hit a point somewhere and hit it too well.

Oh right the concluding paragraph again, bringing up that oh so tempting "G55-Eonwe wolf-duo pre-planned go after Nogrod"

Then in the next defensive post (212) where he gave the explanation to his actions. In response to me, there are parts that follow this pattern of looking out right "let me throw out junk accusations to see if any of them will stick:

But then you Boro seem to fall into the fallacy of hindsight or that of wolvery (both meaning "knowing things"). You can choose which one...

Choose which one? I suppose by that if I choose the G55 and Eonwe in a "full-frontal assault" against Nog than you'll be giving me the same treatment as them? Some elaborate, must be a pre-planned wolf plot scheme, that you don't want to believe is a reasonable option, but you'll argue that it is reasonable and tempting?

I mean you who complain about Bom's lynch seem to forget that he could have been a wolf. Or you knew already he wasn't and then as wolves rant on us others who didn't know from supposed "moral-highground". *coughPitchieCough*

This is perhaps the worst of them all. At that point in the post, I thought to myself "wow, you're going to throw the kitchen sink too, Nog?"

Oh my. I'm not sure if this is enough for me to want to cast a vote for Nog, because his defense behind his actions yesterday look good. And I do recall an innocent Nog being just as "paranoid/everyone is conspiring against me," but really these half-hearted accusations against anyone saying something against him looks bad. It just looks like "I'm going to sling every kind of mud I have up my sleeve at anyone stating suspicion against me and see which mud sticks."

Edit: crossed with everyone since Pom's vote for Legate...woah...looks like something major happened.

Edit 2: and seer revelation...that would explain it.