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Old 05-22-2016, 04:05 PM   #4
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
cellurdur has just left Hobbiton.
Originally Posted by Gothmog, LoB View Post
That is certainly a possibility. Although I'm not sure whether such customs would have changed the same way as languages did (if we assume that the changes in the languages of immortals who, on a regular basis, should be able to talk to their great-great-great-great-parents on a regular basis, makes all that much sense).
I am not an expert in language, but even the Queen's accent and pronunciation has changed in the last quarter of a century. New generations were being born and I imagine that despite having regular contact with their ancestors they were making slight changes to the language. Feanor certainly was improving on things.

However, when it comes to culture I can see many reasons for there to be a great change. The Noldor were not lower down the hierarchy and power scale in Aman. They lived a life of peace if in a limited space. The Sindar had wide lands to roam in and always knew should they roam too far there were dangers.
Another important thing to consider is that Lúthien most certainly embodies the noblest union in the entire history of Arda. Lúthien trumps any Vanya insofar as her status is concerned. If Ingwe is the High-king of all Elves then Lúthien (and Dior) most certainly could make a case to be the rulers/monarchs of Beleriand/Doriath or the high-king/queen of the Sindar.
I think the Sindar would actually except this. From the way that Legolas speaks about Elrond's sons, I think the Sindar even in the third age would have excepted Elrond as their King. Legolas shows reverence to Aragorn, because of his descent from Luthien. Luthien is the the most noble and the most beloved of the elves.

I have always thought it strange that Arwen is referred to as Queen of Elves and Men? Does it refer just to the colony of Elves that Legolas has in Ithilien or something greater?
Melian's special status might very well have changed Lúthien/Dior's status.[/QUOTE}
I wouldn't be surprised if it did as would Luthien's own great deeds.

I think one thing that has to be taken into account is that the Noldor had come to fight a war against Morgoth. The position of High King was also a military one. Tolkien tells us the difference in strength between Elvish men and women was much smaller than ours, but still for other reasons it was predominantly men that led the armies of the Eldar. Perhaps the Noldor decided for this reason to have only men inherit the High King title.

This is similar to what Numenoreans in both Gondor and Arnor do when they return to conflict in ME.
The published Silmarillion seems to refer to Idril as Turgon's heir. I'm not sure whether this comes from JRRT and I'm right now not able to double-check that. However, I'd not be surprised if that was the case. Was Maeglin's desire for Idril not partially caused by his wish to (possibly) succeed Turgon
Does it? I can't recall. I do know that Maeglin thinks to himself Turgon has NO HEIR, which implies that Idril was designated as Turgon's heir. That's one of the reasons why he is keen to go to Gondolin.
The idea that Beren-Lúthien could have inherited Thingol's crown and co-ruled Doriath under other circumstances doesn't seem far-fetched. If so, then Idril and Turgon (and eventually Eärendil) might have been able to do the same. Especially if Turgon had accepted Tuor as his foster son - which he seems to have done, in a sense, when he married Idril to him.
I have no doubt that Luthien alone let alone with Beren could have ruled Doriath, but they had done the impossible and taken a Silmaril from Morgoth. As I said before they also came from a different culture.

Tuor is certainly the leader of the survivors after the Fall of Gondolin. Perhaps you are right, but Tuor did not press his claim, because it would lead to conflict.
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