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Old 05-27-2016, 02:42 PM   #27
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 933
Galin has been trapped in the Barrow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcuin View Post
"... but the last king of Lórien was Amroth, whether he was (as was Tolkien’s intention when he wrote Lord of the Rings) the son of Celeborn and Galadriel (echoed in Treebeard’s greeting, A vanimar, vanimalion nostari!, “O beautiful ones, parents of beautiful children!” i.e., Celebrían and Amroth) or of a Silvan or Sindarin lord Amdír (later in Tolkien’s life)."
Treebeard says (to Celeborn and Galadriel): A vanimar, vanimálion nostari 'O beautiful ones, parents of beautiful children' and in Sauron Defeated 'Fair ones begetters of fair ones'.


But I think this could be a general thing to say to Elves, in other words '*O fair ones (Elves), begetters of fair ones (Elf-children)'. Yes Treebeard is speaking to Celeborn and Galadriel of course, but he could still be speaking generally in my opinion, and Celeborn and Galadriel would still take it as a compliment (being Elves obviously).

The word veru 'married pair' appears to show dual inflexion. Treebeard does not say (in any case) *nostaru 'begetters, parents (two)' but nostari *(nosta- [beget] -r [agentive] -i [plural marker 'begetters']). Why would Treebeard say such a thing (if so)? Maybe his mind is on the fact that there are no Entings now among Ents, and historically even the Elves have had many fair children over time.

Or something.

There's also the question of vanimálion. It could/might be (again in my opinion it seems possible) that this word contains 'many', that is, begetters 'of fair ones (many)'

I note the element li in i falmalinnar 'upon the foaming waves' translated 'i falma-li-nnar the foaming waves-many-upon (pl.)' by Tolkien in RGEO (at least). Also, an Ent once used the word taurelilómea which Appendix F seems to reveal as 'Forest-many-shadowed'.

Or if any of my Elvish is off... never mind

Christopher Tolkien did note that if Amroth were thought of as the son of Galadriel and Celeborn when The Lord of the Rings was written "so important a connection could hardly have escaped mention" (commentary, Unfinished Tales, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn), but granted he cannot put a definitive stamp on it. My impression, based on the draft text version of Nimrodel's song (though granted a draft) is that Amroth was thought of as a Silvan King before Galadriel and Celeborn.

"An Elven-lord he was of old
before the birth of men"


And see draft variants... which I know are just drafts anyway. Let's just say I'm not sure Treebeard's statement need mean that Amroth was thought of Galadriel's son when... well, you know the rest.
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