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Old 12-13-2012, 06:52 AM   #83
elbenprincess
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
elbenprincess has just left Hobbiton.
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Galadriel too had an army at her back and it was bigger than the one at Rivendell. Elrond controlling the must be down to his power. Rivendell also had a spell making it virtually impossible for enemies to find.
Yes she had an army, but itīs explicitly stated that
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besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself.
It seems Galadriel the the main reason Lorien was safe.

I always thught Rivendell was safe because it was located in a valley, I never read something about a spell making Rivendell safe.

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That's not true and you know it. The entire world and everyone good in it was dear to Gandalf. Where as Aragorn had one chance to return his people to their former glory or lose it and Arwen too.
Yes, it may be sure that Gandalf and Aragon would be in greater need and therefore greater tempted, but maybe Galadriel felt that she was in the greatest need, that would be subjective thinking on her part, itīs dependent on the character and how despaired one person is, maybe Galadriel is at this point the most despaired. (besides, the entire world and everyone good in it was dear to her too)
I mean, look at her lament
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wherein the stars tremble in the song of her voice, holy and queenly. Who now shall refill the cup for me?
For now the Kindler, Varda, the Queen of the Stars, from Mount Everwhite has uplifted her hands like clouds, and all paths are drowned deep in shadow;
or
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"I grieve in Middle-earth, for leaves fall and flowers fade; and my heart yearns, remembering trees and grass that do not die. I would have these in my home."
Thatīs just my take on it, I know Gollum was probably not despaired, but you canīt compare them, she had her own reasonings to be so tempted and I donīt think it was because of her power longing, cause at this stage I donīt think she longed for power that much any more.

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Again don't you find it ironic that Arwen rules a greater area than Galadriel.
Yes it is ironic, but thatīs not something she achieved herself, like I said she was just lcky to marry Aragon.

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Men had rejected Eru
How that? I should read the Silm again

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They were power hungry and immediately came to ME and started usurping land that belonged to Thingol, who was king of all Beleriand.
Yo situate it in such a negative light, Thingol was apparently OK with it, even giving Finrod a tip and unless Iīm wrong, they all respected him as their hight king, didnīt they? Ulmo supported that too, helping Fingon.

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The whole world is under their rule. You seem to not want to accept this. Manwe is king of Arda too. If you reject the council of the Valar, break their rules in their own home then why should they allow you back? Just like with giving men Numenor the Valar were merciful.
So there is the rule not to leave Aman without permission?!?! If thatīs the case than the Noldor really never were free. Of course they are free, I know that, your comment just donīt fit, if you leave out the kinslayers, then they just rejected their council to stay and that justifies a ban?!?! So the Eldar of Valinor are expected always to agree with the Valar in all matters and are never to confess their own opinion?!?!
Just for exemple, there is an elf on Tol Eressea (who has done no crime) and the Valar, or one Valar commands them to come to Valimar and then the elf is not in the mood for that (for whatever reason), would the Valar punish him or her?
I think I donīt get the relationship between the Valar and elves, how they life with each other.

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That's rubbish. The Noldor worked hard and built Tiron with their hands. Things were not just there from the beginning.
But for the younger Noldor (like Galadriel) it was, I beleive Tirion was compleated, so she had not the opportunity to be a part of the people who achieved something in their life.

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Again that is not true. The greatest works of the Noldor were performed in Valinor.
I disagree, besides the Silmaril, the greatest works of the Noldor were their kingdoms in ME. IMHO

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Leaving was fine, but it's the reason they wanted to leave. It was selfish and greedy.
I donīt think wanting a own realm is greedy and selfish, the elves of Lorien for example were happy to have a leader again.
Was Turgon selfish or greedy in building Gondolin? It was admired by many. Common elves would be happy that someone is coming who takes the reins.
You canīt work against an enemy if you arenīt organized, sure there was Thingol, but if there are too many people you need more then one king, or why are there 3 or 4 elven kings in aman? (Would Thingol be King in Aman again?)

And the princes never suppressed anyone, the common Noldor who followed obviously were content being under their rule.

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In the case of Galadriel we are told pride made her do the wrong thing. Hence she was banned.
She was even banned in a version where she wasnīt proud and was not with the Noldor and never saw Namo declaring the doom.

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but for the misfortune that before she set out the revolt of Fëonor broke out, and she became involved in the desperate measures of Manwe, and the ban on all emigration."
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Her(Galadriel) pride was unwilling to return a defeated suppliant for pardon
So you say that she wanted to return but was too proud to do so? I read it as she was too proud to return but didnīt wanted to return anyway.

Last edited by elbenprincess; 12-13-2012 at 06:55 AM.
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