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Old 01-22-2005, 01:32 PM   #19
Aiwendil
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RD-EX-66

Findegil wrote:
Quote:
The problem is that the abode of Beren and Lúthien is only given in "The Problem of Ros".
It is? The name Lanthir Lamath is given in note 9 to the text (and in the Shibboleth), and it is here that we find an explanation for the name "Elwing" - but that they dwelt on Tol Galen in the river Adurant is not told here. It must derive from something, but I cannot think what. If it can be found, we ought to use the original text rather than QS77. Also, we should follow the exact words of "Ros" rather than Christopher's reformulation. Rather than:

Quote:
<Sil77 {At}And at that time Beren and Lúthien{ yet} dwelt in Tol Galen, the Green Isle, in the River Adurant, southernmost of the streams that falling from Ered Lindon flowed down to join with {Gelion}[Duin Dear]; and their son Dior Eluchíl had to wife Nimloth, kinswoman of Celeborn, prince of Doriath, who was wedded to the Lady Galadriel. The sons of Dior and Nimloth were Eluréd and Elurín; and a daughter also was born to them, and she was named Elwing, which is Star-spray, for she was born on a night of stars, whose light glittered in the spray of the waterfall of Lanthir Lamath beside her father's house.>
I would say:

Quote:
<Sil77 And [a]t that time Beren and Lúthien yet dwelt in Tol Galen, the Green Isle, in the River Adurant, southernmost of the streams that falling from Ered Lindon flowed down to join with {Gelion}[Duin Dear]; and their son Dior Eluchíl had to wife Nimloth, kinswoman of Celeborn, prince of Doriath, who was wedded to the Lady Galadriel[,]> <Shibboloth and beside one great waterfall , called in Sindarin Lanthir Lamath ('waterfall of echoing voices'), Dior had his house.> <QS77 The sons of Dior and Nimloth were Eluréd and Elurín; and a daughter also was born to them, and she was named Elwing, which is Star-spray.> <Ros For she was born on a clear night of stars, the light of which glittered in the spray of the waterfall beside {his} her father's house.
RD-EX-70

I would go with Maedhros's suggestion.


The continuation of my comments:

RD-EX-75

I don't think I understand the change of "as they climbed the long slopes beneath Mount Dolmed" to "as the Dwarves entered the woods on the further bank".

RD-EX-76

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<TN Now was that {great }fight of the {Stony}[Great] Ford{ ......} nigh to Naugladur>. In that battle the Green Elves took the Dwarves unawares as they were in the midst of their passage, laden with their plunder; {and the Dwarvish chiefs were slain,} and well nigh all their host{.}[ were slain,]
I don't see the need to delete "and the Dwarvish chiefs were slain". True, we are not told of any Dwarvish chiefs other than Naugladur. But this is just as true of the original TN. Surely we can suppose that there were lesser Dwarvish leaders under Naugladur, as indeed we assert in the very next sentence.

RD-EX-78

I'm sorry to say I think this change goes too far. We don't know that the bow Beren had here was the Bow of Bregor, nor that it was at this point that he gave it to Dior. We simply can't state it, I'm afraid.

§49 (§38)
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and thereat he made alone upon Naugladur and his companions, and having slain the foremost of these the others fled away {amid elfin laughter},
I suppose the rationale here is that in the later legendarium, the Elves would not laugh here. But I don't know that that's true.

§50 (§39)
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I will slay this {Elf}[Men]
Should be "Man".

RD-EX-79
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<TN {But}And the waters of {Aros}[Ascar] flowed on for ever above the drowned hoard of {Glorund}[Glaurung], and so do still
We must delete "and so do still" in view of the sinking of Beleriand.

RD-EX-81
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of Berens return Melain
Two typos: should be ". . . of Beren's return Melian . . .".

§ 51e (§44)
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Then said Tinúviel that she desired not things of worth or precious stones but the elfin gladness of the forest
"elfin" > "Elven"

§51f (§45)

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Yet Melian warned them ever of the curse that lay upon the treasure and upon the Silmaril. The treasure they had drowned indeed in the river Ascar, and named it anew Rathloriel, Golden-Bed, yet the Silmaril they retained
Didn't we say already that Ascar was renamed Rathloriel? We should not say it twice.

RD-EX-83
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<TN Yet{yet} is it to tell that bitterness entered into the hearts of the{ seven} sons of Fëanor, remembering their oath.
We have just said that the deathless oath was waked from sleep - so I think we must change the prelminary "Yet" here. Perhaps:

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<TN {yet is it to tell that} For bitterness entered into the hearts of the{ seven} sons of Fëanor, remembering their oath.
RD-EX-84
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<TN And Celegrom {and he} said to them how it was now known to him that a Silmaril of those their father Fëanor had made was now the pride and glory of Dior of the{ southern} vales[ of Doriath], ‘and Elwing his daughter bears it whitherso she goes
Elwing's age is unclear in TN, but in the later chronology she is 3 or 4 at this point; in view of this and the fact that there is no later reference (as far as I recall) to her wearing the Nauglamir during this period, I think we should drop the reference.

RD-EX-85
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and Dior waxed wroth, bidding him be gone, {nor dare to claim what his sire Beren the Onehanded won with his hand from the [?jaws] of Melko} – ‘other twain are there in the selfsame place,<editorial addition where this had come from,>’ said he, ‘an your hearts be bold enow.’>
I don't understand this change.

RD-SL-32.5
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<TY and {Celegorn}[Celegorm] {inflames} inflamed the brethren,>
It sounds awkward to repeat "brethren" after "Then went Curufin unto his brethren". I would say:

Quote:
]<TY and {Celegorn}[Celegorm] {inflames} inflamed {the brethren} them,>
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and the Eldar cry shame upon them for that deed, the first premeditated war of {elfin}[elven] folk upon {elfin}[elven] folk
This is curious. I was about to say that we must change "first" to "second", but then I realized that of course the kin-slaying at Alqualonde was already present in the Lost Tales. Perhaps the first kin-slaying is not deemed "premeditated"? I suppose we must keep the text as it is, but it is rather strange.

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RD-SL-33 {Dior}><TY the east marches of Doriath>, and Dior{ and Auredhir were}was slain, RD-EX-89 <TY {There}there fell also {Celegorn}[Celegorm] (by Dior's hand)
We must either change the comma after "slain" to a semicolon or edit the text of TY. I would go with the former.

RD-EX-92

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<Sil77 Of this Maedhros later indeed repented, and sought for them long in the woods of Doriath; but his search was unavailing.>
Why have we added "later"?

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<TN Now was naught left of the seed of Beren {Ermabwed}[Erchamion] son of {Egnor}[Barahir] save Elwing the Lovely
In TN, Auredhir was slain and Elwing escaped, so this was true. But now the fate of her brothers is not known for sure, so we cannot know that naught was left of the seed of Beren save Elwing.

Quote:
<TY hearing the rumour /that the survivors of Gondolin had reached the Havens/>
It seems unlikely that this is the rumour that they heard, since this is listed under 506-507 and the exiles of Gondolin did not reach Sirion until 511 - where indeed they found Elwing's people already. The meaning of "rumour" is unclear, and it may be, as Christopher interprets it, a reference to the people of Gondolin. But that is far from clear, and if so it represents a change in the story. I would delete the whole phrase and simply say:

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And in time they departed for ever from the glades of {Hithlum}[Ossiriand] . . .
RD-EX-95
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And thus did all the fates of the fairies weave then to one strand
If we are changing "lamp of Faerie" to "lamp of Feanor" should we not change "fairie" or "faerie" at all occurrences to "Elves" or something else?

I still need to review the arguments relating to RD-SL-27 before I have anything to say about that.
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