<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Newly Deceased
Posts: 5</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Nested implications
I certainly missed the late reference to Galadriel again crossing the Mountains in the First Age, and also the problem of Celebrimbor's parentage.
But the main purpose of my earlier posting, besides trying to organize the possible variations, was to indicate that bringing Galadriel to Middle-earth, whether accompanied by Teleporno or not, creates great problems in realistically maintaining the motif of keeping the twin secrets of the Revolt of the Noldor and the Kin-slaying at Alqualondë from Thingol. Galadriel and her companions, coming first to Círdan, have
no reason to keep anything secret and every reason to tell all, and as indicated in my post, I think this would make for a better and more dramatic story.
But unless this story can be properly created by simple cut-and-paste, then the late idea of a separate crossing by Galadriel must be ignored as introducing an issue Tolkien would have needed to address. He could have addressed it
easily, and it could be done easily enough now, but not, I think, without some substantial rewriting or adding of extra material.
As to Teleporno's status as Sindar: in HoME 11, "Quendi and Eldar" C.**The Clan-names,
Sindar, Tolkien writes of the name
Sindari:<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> This was the name given by the Exiled Ñoldor (see Note 11) to the second largest of the divisions of the Eldar.
(Note 16, p.*412) It was applied to all the Elves of Telerin origin that the Ñoldor found in Beleriand, though it later excluded the Nandor, except those who were the direct subjects of Elwe, or had become merged with his people.<hr></blockquote>This passage and others from "Quendi and Eldar" appear to be the origin of Christopher Tolkien's entry on
Sindar in the index to the published
Silmarillion which says the same thing with unimportantl differences in wording.
Therefore,
by definition, any Teleri who accompanied Galadriel to Beleriand, arriving before the Noldor, and "that the Ñoldor found in Beleriand" are reckoned as Sindar, and Celeborn is just as much one of the Sindar as he is in
The Lord of the Rings.
Yes, this is a silly and forced quibble, but I believe it is the same nice point of identification that Tolkien would have used to gloss over the change. He would probably also have made the returned Teleri direct subjects of Elwë, "merged" with his people, so that in this also they would become Sindar.
Finally, to insist that Celeborn could not have been counted among the Sindar because he was born among the Teleri of Aman is somewhat like saying Tolkien could not rightly be called English because he was born in South Africa. (Not
exactly the same, I admit, but close enough.)
I see no contradiction between the description in LR of Celeborn being one of the Sindar and the account of Teleporno being born in Aman. The tension between the accounts is very slight. If some way of dealing with the motif of keeping the two secrets could be found and it is decided that the separate crossing of Galadriel can be kept, there is nothing forbidding Teleporno being among those who accompany her in either LR or the published
Quenta Silmarillion.
The cousin relationship is a separate issue and I've dealt with possible solutions in the previous post. Just changing "grandson of Olwë" to "kinsman of Olwë" would do.
</p>