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Old 09-12-2004, 12:44 PM   #59
Man-of-the-Wold
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin
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Man-of-the-Wold has just left Hobbiton.
Eye Further Conclusions

Having begun this thread, I am pleased to have so much to comment on now that I've finally completed the entire HoME. I must say that with the exception of these RoD issues (and the omission of relatively finished texts found in Vol X and other defensible if unfortunate abridgements), I think C Tolkien did a fine job with S`77 in publishing the book that his father might have done and wanted to publish in the mid-1950s (apart from never finished matters like the FoG), and he is too hard on himself.

What his father could have had in mind over the succeeding 15 years in terms of a better quality and fully LoTR-congruent work---but was never going to write beyond bits & pieces---is pure speculation. My recent readings of Shippey's and Clyde Kilby's books lead me to believe that JRRT, besides being overwhelmed by fundamental questions of adaptation, was not really interested, much less motivated, in concluding his work on earlier Ages. In short, I wonder about the point and propriety of the New, Revised Silmarillion.

Nevertheless:

1. Húrin had a following. Unless I'm forgetting much from Turambar and The Foalókë; I'm not sure of what is written about the intrigue and debates among the followers as it might relate to their membership as indicated in “Wanderings,” which suggests that the appellation of ‘outlaws’ is unfair; they were homeless and sometimes misguided, but still decent Men, mainly of the 2nd and 3rd Houses, when Beleriand was devoid of "laws."

2. Mîm's guarding the treasure of Nargothrond is a critical element of the Legendarium. It can merely be stated that he was slain, with a concluding comment that "some say it was done contrary to Húrin's wishes, others that Húrin did it himself out of vengeance for the wrongs against his kin." Both are believable, but the latter has greater credence in light of "Wanderings".

3. It seems an obvious device that the treasure and those that handle it are cursed, and it is reasonable that (most of) Húrin's men might have later suffered madness, cruel fates and so forth, whether they kept or not any trinket or portion, given not only the power that Mîm might have possessed as the last of his kind, but also the fact that it was unredeemed Dragon-gold, already imbued with so much treachery and woe.

4. To say that they transported it to Doriath and not to Menegroth, and that Húrin's following (for the most part) did not enter Doriath, but that (all/most/large part of) the treasure was delivered over to the March Wardens at Húrin's command and transported by those Elves to Menegroth, combines elements of both traditions, and nicely avoids the awkwardness of conflict between his followers and the Elves.

5. Húrin, of course, presents the treasure in mockery to Thingol. Though apparently an invention of C Tolkien, the fact that the Melian could and would lift the spell and deceptions of Morgoth seems highly plausible, and it is the one (presumed) invention that I might retain, at least in the sense “that by some reports, Húrin ...".

6. After that, Húrin is only known to have left Doriath, and he was never heard from again. It is not even reported if he rejoined his followers, "but it is said….”

7. That Thingol became unwise and greedy in keeping the gold and having the Silmaril fitted to the Nauglamír, against counsel of Melian, is perfectly reasonable: his arrogance is still part of the later tradition, the treasure is cursed, and his own mind afflicted by grief, regrets and anger. No special device or character seems necessary.

8. The Dwarves naturally lust after the accursed treasure, and in being exposed directly to a Silmaril (regardless of whether they are already at or summoned to Menegroth) they can't help but to be seduced by its glory, and like Thingol, fall under the Doom of Mandos---the underlying thread of destiny in the Beleriandic stories.

9. Upon being met with their demands and seeing their desire for the Silmaril, Thingol becomes enraged in ways analogous to Fëanor, and has them forcibly expelled from Doriath without even their customary recompense for smithy-work.

10. I agree that the action should be limited to the Dwarves of Nogrod. The Dwarves of Belegost are regularly depicted as nobler. In view of what is said in The Shibboleth of Fëanor about the Great Dwarves’ attitude towards the petty-dwarves, Mîm’s murder can hardly be retained as a motivating factor or even a disingenuous excuse.

(Lastly, although the passage in The Hobbit [“Flies and Spiders”] is arguably directed at these First Age events, I’ve often felt that it refers just as well to another conflict more proximate to Thranduil’s realm and more recent than 6,000 years, in that the “elf-king” in question is Thranduil [or maybe Oropher], with the noninvolvement of “Thorin’s family” being explained by the Woodland Realm having been in contact with the next of the seven Dwarven folk to the east, at a time when Moria’s commercial dominance across Rhovanion had ebbed)

11. Even if JRRT struggled with the question, the invincibility of the Girdle of Melian is not necessarily absolute. We see the Sindar still needing to exert considerable effort to defend their frontier, and there are secret gates and pathways into the ‘hidden realm’ that certain Elves could have helped one through, even if Thingol/Melian would have been more or less aware of it. (Thingol is also somewhat responsible for the Girdle, and his capacities may be failing)

12. Likewise, I also question the premise that all of the Doriathrim are above reproach. It seems perfectly acceptable given the influences of curses, avarice and Morgoth's espionage, that some became corrupted or confused, and that betrayal (once again) reared its ugly head, even among Thingol's people, consistent with the tradition that JRRT never actually abandoned. Some may even have been Noldorin Avari or otherwise "Dwarf-friends" like Eol, and/or inhabitants of the borderland of Arthórien beyond Aros.

13. In any event, the Nogrodrim need only attempt (however vainly) to attack Doriath; thusly is Thingol ‘lured’ to the Marches to repulse/punish them. Then the challenge is how with the Girdle intact are the Dwarves able to lay low not only the tallest of the Eldar, but one who is also described as the greatest next to Fëanor. Again, I might combine sketchy traditions (to paraphrase): ‘some say in his confidence and fury that Thingol underestimated the resolve and tenacity of the Dwarves in battle, engaging them with too little force well beyond the confines of Doriath, while others claim in those dark and wicked days that treachery and the lies of Morgoth had entered even into Doriath, so that Thingol and his company were ambushed by Dwarves, who had penetrated parts of the Girdle with the help of greedy Elves ensnared by the Treasure of Nargothrond, or resembling Eol in having long trafficked with the Dwarf kingdoms, and to whom had been promised great reward. What is certain is that Thingol fell, and Mablung beside him, an unfathomable blow to the defenders of Doriath.’

14. To me it seems perfectly appropriate that Melian would have been immediately aware when Thingol’s fea departed from Middle-Earth, and that she and her powers would have rapidly fled, as well. Not only do we see limitations on what Maiars like Olórin or Iarwain Ben-adar are supposed to do in Middle-Earth, but also her existence and authority in Doriath was entirely bound up in her Union with Thingol. Break that Union within Endor, and she has hardly any business being there in a material way. So, while it might be nice for her to visit Lúthien or to have waited on Dior’s taking the throne, I find those storylines at best awkward and unnecessary, and her transporting the Nauglamír untenable in the later traditions (even though it must still get to Beren & Lúthien somehow). Finally, she has to be totally overcome by grief.

15. Therefore, to say that she abandoned her people is unfair. Aside from her obvious and overwhelming grief and the probable passing of her earthly authority to maintain the Girdle, they were her people only by the sacred grace of her marriage to Thingol. I’d also be concerned about exaggerating any wanton destruction or ravaging by the Dwarves as a holdover from the very early tradition of Dwarves as an evilly inclined race. With Thingol’s forces in apparent disarray, the Nogrodrim would have been concerned only with raiding the treasury, which might have been defended (even if not by Mablung).

16. I agree that word of these events should non-specifically reach the Laiquendi, as well as Beren and Lúthien. Tolkien may have wanted to keep Beren hands clean of further blood, but for him to avenge the killing of his father-in-law, and the Green-elves, their ultimate lord, is entirely proper. So, I’m happy to see that the role of Celegorm, Caranthir and/or Curufin is rejected, especially as it would make untenable the alliance of Moria and the fëanorian Elven-smiths in the Second Age.

17. The battle, while significant, need not be seen as a major one. The Dwarves ought to be very much reduced in number, and the Green-elves have the element of surprise as the Dwarves struggle up the eastern bank of Gelion, even as they are lightly armed and of modest size, while nevertheless led by Beren (along with Dior?). Otherwise, as much as possible can be inserted from The Nauglafring, with the Treasure being buried under the Ascar by Beren, and the Ents finishing off the routed Dwarves, as nicely devised by C Tolkien in S`77.

Finally, please note that the above points are not suggested for actual insertion into any text, but rather as arguments for choosing one plot option or another. They might only be used as a suggestion, rumor or allusions in the flow of the text (even in the form of a footnote) where some sort of explanation or justification for events was found to be indispensable for the reader's sake.
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The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.

Last edited by Man-of-the-Wold; 09-12-2004 at 12:50 PM.
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