The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - The Parentage of Orodreth and Gil-galad: A History

Tar Elenion · 04-17-2001, 04:24 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 96</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: ....

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Quothe Pengolodh:
Tar-Elenion, that was some great research, you do know your Tolkien.
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Thanks.

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Let me get this straight. Tolkien's final thoughts on the matter seem to have been that Gil-Galad was Orodreth's son, with Orodreth the son of Angrod and not the son of Finarfin?
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Yes.

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Why then Orodreth as Finarfin's son in the published Silmarillion, he could still have been Angrod's son, even if Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon. Why the emendation to son of Finarfin?
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CT was going off the more 'completed', if earlier written, narratives which had Orodreth as the son of Finarfin (though there had been some emendation by JRRT). Perhaps CT was also less aware of these changes at the time he was putting the Silmarillion together for publication.

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Concerning Gil-Galad, Aiwendil explained it quite well, why CT most have chosen Fingon as a father to Gil-Galad. That makes the most sense too me as well. Just curious as to what his final (written ) thought was on the parentage of Gil-Galad, I always get my time frames mixed up.
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CT indicates (in PoME, the Shibboleth) that he went with Gil-galad as son of Fingon because he could not be son of Finrod (who had no wife and there was no suggestion of a Finarfinian descent for Gil-galad in the genealogical tables. He considered the Gil-galads Orodreth parentage as too late and radical to justify changing the completed narratives.

Re Turgon's precedence:
My point exactly.

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ps, was Thingol considered Overlord in Middle-earth at the time of the coming of the exiled Noldor to Beleriand?
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Overlord of Beleriand and its Elves. Some narratives suggest that Fingolfin (and others) also acknowledged Thingol's Overlordship (though this _may_ have been abandoned).

Tar-Elenion--------------------- I will come with Fire and Sword, and put your cities to the Torch, your men to the Blade, your women and children in Chains</p>

04-17-2001, 04:24 PM	#9
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 358	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 96</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: .... ----------------------------- Quothe Pengolodh: Tar-Elenion, that was some great research, you do know your Tolkien. -------------------------------- Thanks. -------------------------------------- Quote: Let me get this straight. Tolkien's final thoughts on the matter seem to have been that Gil-Galad was Orodreth's son, with Orodreth the son of Angrod and not the son of Finarfin? --------------------------------------- Yes. --------------------------------------- Quote: Why then Orodreth as Finarfin's son in the published Silmarillion, he could still have been Angrod's son, even if Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon. Why the emendation to son of Finarfin? ------------------------------------ CT was going off the more 'completed', if earlier written, narratives which had Orodreth as the son of Finarfin (though there had been some emendation by JRRT). Perhaps CT was also less aware of these changes at the time he was putting the Silmarillion together for publication. ------------------------------ Quote: Concerning Gil-Galad, Aiwendil explained it quite well, why CT most have chosen Fingon as a father to Gil-Galad. That makes the most sense too me as well. Just curious as to what his final (written ) thought was on the parentage of Gil-Galad, I always get my time frames mixed up. ------------------------------- CT indicates (in PoME, the Shibboleth) that he went with Gil-galad as son of Fingon because he could not be son of Finrod (who had no wife and there was no suggestion of a Finarfinian descent for Gil-galad in the genealogical tables. He considered the Gil-galads Orodreth parentage as too late and radical to justify changing the completed narratives. Re Turgon's precedence: My point exactly. ------------------ Quote: ps, was Thingol considered Overlord in Middle-earth at the time of the coming of the exiled Noldor to Beleriand? ------------------------- Overlord of Beleriand and its Elves. Some narratives suggest that Fingolfin (and others) also acknowledged Thingol's Overlordship (though this _may_ have been abandoned). Tar-Elenion--------------------- I will come with Fire and Sword, and put your cities to the Torch, your men to the Blade, your women and children in Chains</p> __________________ Tar-Elenion