[Elladan and Elrohir]

I realize this comment won't help the discussion very much, but for the life of me I cannot figure how Ian McKellen can wink without moving another single muscle in his face. Try it and see how hard it is. Just another example of a great actor at work, I guess...

I like the Golden Hall scenes more than I dislike them, overall, but I do agree that PJ took some significant story liberties, they weren't all justified, some of it was powerful and some of it was kind of dumb.

Eowyn's lament is powerful, but it takes you a while to get used to how loud it is. She starts out really loud and doesn't take it down any as she sings. I think Tolkien would have absolutely LOVED this touch, as he was a scholar in Old English.

The scene with Gandalf and Theoden at Theodred's grave is beautifully scripted and shot, methinks. What gets me is that on the technical commentary, they said that it took them seventy-something takes to get the falling flower shot right, and they ended up using take number 40-something. What were all those other ones for, then?

PJ seems to revel in Gandalf the Manipulator, but I don't like it. He goes on and on in the director's commentary about how Gandalf is using the kids and blah blah blah to get Theoden to do what he wants. I don't think it has to be interpreted that way even in the films, and it kind of disturbs me that PJ sees it that way and doesn't care. But then again, his G the W is going to end up way different from the books.

Speaking of Gandalf the Grumpy (there's an endless barrage of epithets for him, I guess), what's wrong with going to Helm's Deep? It's a whole lot more secure than Edoras, that's fo shizzle. Of course, in the book Theoden is going to the Fords of Isen, with only his army, and then ends up going to the Deep, but it's still a smart strategic move. I don't like how going to the Deep is suddenly presented as stupid and shortsighted.