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Old 10-03-2017, 07:24 AM   #12
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 933
Galin has been trapped in the Barrow!
Hi Findegil. Yes I couldn't resist. I've spent hours and hours on this tangle of history.

I don't mean that Galadriel's statement is wholly unspecific. It's quite general yet gives at least a "time line in the sand" so to speak. If I say "before the Fall of Rome" folks will probably think "thousands of years ago" but they will also, I would guess, differentiate even this from the "dawn of history" for example.

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Originally Posted by Findegil View Post
(...) So the meaning must be that Celeborn was in the Westlands before the days of dawn, but Galadriel crossed the mountians (which ever) between 'the dayd of dawn' and 'the Fall of Nargothrond (and Gondolin)'.
Celeborn "is accounted the wisest of the Elves in Middle-earth" (agree or not) he has "dwelt in the West since the days of dawn" (very very long time) "and I [Galadriel of course] have dwelt with him years uncounted" [then she gives yet another general time detail, but one that is at least more "markable" in the imagination] "for ere the fall of Nargothrond and Gondolin" [still thousands of years past, but a point of general reference for the Company, including Hobbits] "I passed over the mountains and together through ages of the world..."

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One can interpret these mountains to be the Ered Lómin or the Ered Wethrin, but for me that doesn't makes sense at all. And for this project we should not force any such interpretation on our reader.
For myself I reject the Ered Lomin as there appears to be a pass taken by the Noldor and those dratted orcs who chose the same way; or in any case, the history does not describe any difficult mountain passage here. This could be due to brevity, but taken along with this path being worth finding for the orcs, who had come a long way round to follow the Noldor, to me this suggests at least something less that the "usual" difficulty of crossing high mountains.

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Galin, you made a very ggod point, that in source C the Company of the Ring had just crossed the very prominent Hitheaglir and that for that reason the reference would very naturally be to that mountain range. And why not? If we let Galadriel explore the east as we hear in source D that she would have liked to withdraw with all the force of Beleriand into that region why than not even cross the Hithaeglir and not only the Ered Luin?
Tue enough. I can't recall nowadays for sure, but I'm guessing that for my first read at least, I supposed she meant the Misty Mountains.

But ach, text D. I wouldn't employ this late variation as it's notably at odds with Galadriel's author published history (and Tolkien's memory seems certainly questionable here).

I understand however that you take a different view and draw what you can into a fuller tale. No problem of course.

This means I'm sure not to agree with your Second Age history here, as I think Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn in Unfinished Tales is a problematic text.

I'll try to resist then... I'll try

For instance I believe that the making of Celebrimbor into a Feanorean and Lord of Eregion, for the second edition of The Lord of the Rings (and certain statements from Words, Phrases, And Passages), knocks out the notion of Galadriel and Celeborn supposedly founding Eregion and so on (other problems I have with this text)...

... but see... I'm already going there

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In the end the important question for this project is how much of what we discuss here must be put into our text? If we can mange it in the text, we might even leafe this riddle about the mountain range unsolved.
True.

In any case I appreciate the feedback on my "mountain idea" in an attempt to deal with this line in Fellowship of the Ring, even if I still haven't convinced you... or anyone.


Last edited by Galin; 10-03-2017 at 12:22 PM.
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