[Sardy]

Thanks for the quick response! Before jumping the gun, I should say that in starting this topic, I specifically shied away from mentioning things like "Eating weird mushrooms and licking paper soaked in LSD" or even specific drug use of any sort (though it should not be demonized or out of the realm of discussion, either). There are many, many forms of altered consciousness besides drugs---from spinning in circles to to transcendental meditation, from lucid dreaming to religious experience, from genetic makeup to brain injury, psychological conditions to evolutionary digression. Many forms of altered consciousness are indeed "normal", and experienced naturally. One thing I wish to avoid in this discussion is a heated debate of the morality and ethics of the drug phenomenon.

Originally Posted by The Might

Now of course we all sometimes want to be in a fairytale place, and of course we wish we were floating around with dragons etc. but things don't happen like this in the Seventh Age of M-e.

That's not at all what I am driving at or looking to discuss (although things like Ent draft, Elven wine, pipe weed, etc. might contradict your statement---(I would also defer to Dinah Hazell's wonderful The Plants of Middle-Earth which is an invaluable resource in learning more about the physiological, psychological and spiritual uses of "drugs" in the first three Ages of Middle-earth). Rather, I am looking for a discussion of altered states of consciousness---psychedelic experience (from Aragorn's "vision" of Moria to Frodo's dreams of the sea)---however they may occur: whether invoked by higher powers, sought out through meditation and pipe-weed, prompted by rings of power, or naturally occuring states of consciousness as in the Elves (perhaps in part a side effect of immortality?).

Regardless of the cause or the duration, the Elves DO indeed exhibit an altered perception from that of men (and other mortals). I am curious as to discussing how this plays out within the story, as well as breaking down the third wall to discuss how Tolkien perceived and created the different mindsets of his characters and races.

Originally Posted by The Might

So, I'd conclude that whatever the Elves were doing it was by no means anything psychedelic for them only relatively perceived as such by the Hobbits.

Well, then---their perception of the world around them, and their state of consciousness, is certainly psychedelically different than that of the Hobbits (and of the reader), isn't it?

Originally Posted by The Might

Furthermore, in these experiences people want to do it, they voluntarily put themselves through a certain process to experience a new state.

Not necessarily. Or at the very least, that wasn't one of my intended points. While altered consciousness certainly CAN be a voluntary experience, I don't think---especially in a fictional work---that it must be so.

Originally Posted by The Might

...as far as I know the Professor was not a big fan of experimental drugs. Firstly, his Catholic upbringing would surely make him an opponent and secondly I believe I read somewhere that he disliked hippies and such, who were at that time some of those experimenters.

I did some Googling before starting this thread and couldn't find ANYTHING on this topic. But I would be very interested in learning about Tolkien's experiences with and/or feelings about drugs (including pipe-weed and alcohol), altered consciousness, and psychedelic experience! Likewise, I'd be very interested in learning more about how the psychedelic movement of the sixties (and beyond) embraced Tolkien and Middle-earth, how they perceived it and what it meant to them...

Originally Posted by The Might

The topic seems interesting and I have no doubt that a nice discussion will emerge of this.

I certainly hope so!!!