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Old 09-03-2015, 12:00 PM   #1
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Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth

Abbreviation used in the text (which was not mentioned so far, as far as I know):
AT-M Athrabeth, manuscript

Base text is the typescript of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, which is found in the Morgoth's Ring, the 10th volume of The History of Middle-earth.

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth
The Debate of Finrod and Andreth

Of the Wise some were women, and they were greatly esteemed among Men, especially for their knowledge of the legends of ancient days. Another Wise-woman was Adanel, sister of {Hador Lorindol} [Magor] at one time Lord of the People of Marach, whose lore and traditions, and their language also, were different from those of the People of Bor. But Adanel was married to a kinsman of Andreth, Belemir of the House of Bor{: he was grandsire of Emeldir, mother of Beren} <AT-M , grandson of Belen second son of Bor the Old, to whom the wisdom of Bor (for Bor himself had been one of the Wise) was chiefly transmitted>. Belemir was also a grandsire of Emeldir, mother of Beren. {In her youth Andreth had dwelt long in Belemir's house} <AT-M And there had been great love between Belemir and Andreth his younger kinswoman (the daughter of his second cousin Boromir)>, and she dwelt long in his house, and so had learned from Adanel much of the lore of the People of Marach, besides the lore of her own folk.
To explain my changes:

1. In the later versions of the genealogies Adanel is sister of Magor, Hador's grandfather.

2. & 3. These changes are taken up from the manuscript of "Athrabeth" which adds additional information on the House of Bor.

We have seen it, and we fear it,“ answered Finrod. „We too may die, Andreth; and we have died. My father's father was cruelly slain, and many have followed him, exiles in the night, in the cruel ice, in the insatiable sea. And in Middle-earth we have died, by fire and by smoke, by venom and the cruel blades of battle. Fanor is dead, and {Fingolphin was trodden under the feet of the Morgoth} [Argon Fingolfin's son too].
As Christopher Tolkien remarks (also!), I simply have no explanation of Fingolfin's death happening at such an early time, especially since it is said in the text, that the Siege of Angband is still taking place.

Now, concerning the change I made, it might be (probably is) a little too liberal, but Argon is (along with Amrod/Amarthan) the only prince of the Noldor to have died before the year in which the debate takes place. In addition, it would be nice (in my opinion) to insert a reference to a character that was otherwise 'lost' in the published Silmarillion.

„I had heard,“ said Andreth, „that it was to regain your treasure that your Enemy had stolen; but maybe the House of {Finarfin} [Arfin] is not at one with the Sons of Fanor. Nonetheless for all your valour, I say again: 'what know ye of death?' To you it may be in pain, it may be bitter and a loss – but only for a time, a little taken from abundance, unless I have been told untruth. For ye know that in dying you do not leave the world, and that you may return to life.
„They have no certainty and no knowledge, only fears, or dreams in the dark,“ answered Andreth. „But hope? Hope, that is another matter, of which even the Wise seldom speak.“ Then her voice grew more gentle. „Yet, Lord Finrod of the House of {Finarfin} [Arfin], of the high and puissant Elves, perhaps we may speak of it anon, you and I.“

It was only after the death of Fingolfin that Finrod changed the name of his father from 'Arfin' to 'Finarfin'. If we follow this notion, then all references to 'Finarfin' as mentioned by the characters in the dialogue must be either removed or changed. I have chosen the later.

Appendix: The Tale of Adanel

Then Andreth being urged by Finrod said at last: „This is the tale that Adanel of the House of {Hador} [Marach] told to me: ...

Again, the problem of chronology. At the time of the debate, Hador was pretty young (18 or 19) and it seems to me unlikely that the name of the House of Marach was changed to that of the House of Hador at such an early time in Hador's life.
Hige sceal ē heardra, heorte ē cēnre,
mōd sceal ē māre, ē ūre mgen lytla.

Last edited by Arvegil145; 09-03-2015 at 11:29 PM.
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