[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

Certainly it did not, but you yourself are not averse to quoting Tolkien's words that have not made it into say LotR or it's Appendixes. Is there a problem you have with the quote because it's not in the appendix? I'd find it hard to think this would be the case, especially with you or many another people when LotR is not the sole source made use of.

Yes, because it is in a draft and he chose to leave it out. There is a difference between a note he left about a topic and a draft he discarded with what was published. Or else Strider would still be a Hobbit and the Sons of Elrond would have led the Eorl's charge. In the case of the Sons of Elrond riding to save Gondor, I don't accept it as much as I would love to.

Correct. They would have children late too. In PoM-E, chapter 7 for example, it is said that Turin l "was wedded twice and had several children ( a thing already rare and remarkable among the nobles of Gondor); but only the last, a child born in his old age, was a son."



Yes. In the Kin-Strife itself, "much of the best blood in Gondor was shed" [Appendix A] There is also the infighting within the royal household itself leading to possible heirs abandoning their noble stations.

""the descendants of the kings had become few. Their numbers had been greatly diminished in the Kin-strife; whereas since that time the kings had become jealous and watchful OF THOSE NEAR KIN. Often those on whom SUSPICION FELL had fled to Umbar and there joined the rebels; while others had RENOUNCED THEIR LINEAGE and taken wives NOT of Númenorean blood."

Not only wiped out, but many renounced their lineage as well and began to take non-Dúnedain wives.

Yes this supports the few families being left with Royal Blood.

Indeed, nor others "whose claim all would allow".

Or do you mean chosen by the Kings to be Stewards?

I mean both. The families with claims, that were not strong enough probably would not accept a rival to rule as Steward. Hence to stop future infighting you choose a family with a weak claim to rule.

Not an argument.

No it is. The families with strong claims to the throne would probably be some of the greatest nobles in the land. The Princes of Dol Amroth were the greatest nobles in Gondor, but there were others still about and greater than the House of Stewards. Considering the Stewards had ruled Gondor for a 1000 years, but STILL were not regarded as greater than these families is something.

I think it is clear there is no claimant because Eärnur, "left no children. No MALE descendant of CLEAR title (OR nearly PURE BLOOD) of Elendil could be discovered." [Heirs of Elendil, ch. 7] In Gondor kingship passed through the male line. So it did not matter if the Steward at that time was the son of the King's sister, he could not take the throne. Gondor's Council told King Arvedui, "The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs soley to the heirs of Meneldil... In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the SONS only" [Appendix A] In the end the crown was given to Eärnil, "the son of Siriondil, son of Calimmacil, son of Arciryas brother of Narmacil ll."

What is clear to me is that those who could be claimants were hardly pure like the children of Castamir for instance, "The sons of Kastamir and others of his kin, having fled from Gondor in 1447, set up a small kingdom in Umbar... they married women of Harad and had in three generations lost most of their Númenorean blood" [ch.7]. So since "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;" [Appendix A] there was no Kingship allotted. The Kin-strife was also at the backs of the minds of the Council.

This is part of the reason, but Arnor puts forward the claim the female line first. This implies that even in the female line, there was not many claimants.

It's in reply to this that Gondor makes the decision to choose Earnil a descendant through the male line over Arvedui's female line claim (amongst other claims).

It seems almost impossible that the Princes of Dol Amroth were not descendants of Anarion through a female line at this point. I question only if the House of Stewards were too.

I don't think they were, because
1. They were not one of the great families
2. Everyone agreed to let them rule as Stewards.