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Bill Ferny · 09-22-2002, 06:33 PM

Tinnu

Thank you for the link to Dr. Hoeller’s lecture. I am very familiar with many of Dr. Hoeller’s works especially The Fall of Sophia: A Gnostic Text on the Redemption of Universal Consciousness, Freedom: Alchemy for a Voluntary Society, The Royal Road: A Manual of Kabbalistic Meditations on the Tarot, and a number of books he wrote about Jung. To be honest, I read these books in order to write a treatise in grad school refuting Hoeller and modern gnosticism.

In the interests of clarity, I think it should be pointed out to any one who may be interested in the lecture provided by Tinnu, that Dr. Hoeller’s notions about Jesus Christ, redemption and eschatology are not Christian according to any established doctrinal norms, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant. Many of his views are also at odds with TolkienGurl's personal Christian creed above. In fact, many established Christian churches and modern theologians have characterized Hoeller’s modern gnostic movement as occultism. Not that I’m putting down anyone out there who might be an occultist! Not that I’m blindly upholding Christianity! Its just that Hoeller and his devotees sometimes neglect to mention that their views are at odds with the doctrines of nearly every established Christian church out there. So if you are member of one of these established Christian faiths, beware.

Tolkien said himself that he was not into the business of allegorizing the real world, theological or otherwise. If Hoeller sees an allegory between Tolkien and modern gnosticism, then I'm pretty sure the only person putting that allegory there is him, especially since Tolkien's personal beliefs and faith couldn't be more different than those held by Hoeller or gnostics, modern or ancient. For any of you who have ever studied early Christian gnosis, you would know that gnostics are very good at accepting everything as their own, even obviously contradictory ideas and traditions. The parallels that Hoeller draws between his brand of gnosticism and Tolkien are contrived at best.

As I said before, making Tolkien into a theologian is dangerous, because he never intended to write theology, especially gnostic theology! Its alright, in my opinion, to point out obvious parallels in Tolkien’s writings to his Catholic faith. Just as it is alright to point out parallels between Middle Earth and Anglo-Saxon, Icelandic, and Scandinavian culture and history. It is fine to see Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon mythology at work in Tolkien’s Middle-Earth, but just because Tolkien was a student of pre-Norman Europe, knew and loved the mythology and languages, and used them extensively in his works, certainly doesn’t make him or his works pagan. This seems to be the argument that Hoeller makes, based on his exercise of forcing his gnostic worldview onto Tolkien’s Middle Earth.

Don't get me wrong! Its not my intention to attack anyone or anyone's beliefs. However, to make Tolkien and his books into something they are not is to do violence to him and his genius.

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ]

09-22-2002, 06:33 PM	#71
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 392	Tinnu Thank you for the link to Dr. Hoeller’s lecture. I am very familiar with many of Dr. Hoeller’s works especially The Fall of Sophia: A Gnostic Text on the Redemption of Universal Consciousness, Freedom: Alchemy for a Voluntary Society, The Royal Road: A Manual of Kabbalistic Meditations on the Tarot, and a number of books he wrote about Jung. To be honest, I read these books in order to write a treatise in grad school refuting Hoeller and modern gnosticism. In the interests of clarity, I think it should be pointed out to any one who may be interested in the lecture provided by Tinnu, that Dr. Hoeller’s notions about Jesus Christ, redemption and eschatology are not Christian according to any established doctrinal norms, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant. Many of his views are also at odds with TolkienGurl's personal Christian creed above. In fact, many established Christian churches and modern theologians have characterized Hoeller’s modern gnostic movement as occultism. Not that I’m putting down anyone out there who might be an occultist! Not that I’m blindly upholding Christianity! Its just that Hoeller and his devotees sometimes neglect to mention that their views are at odds with the doctrines of nearly every established Christian church out there. So if you are member of one of these established Christian faiths, beware. Tolkien said himself that he was not into the business of allegorizing the real world, theological or otherwise. If Hoeller sees an allegory between Tolkien and modern gnosticism, then I'm pretty sure the only person putting that allegory there is him, especially since Tolkien's personal beliefs and faith couldn't be more different than those held by Hoeller or gnostics, modern or ancient. For any of you who have ever studied early Christian gnosis, you would know that gnostics are very good at accepting everything as their own, even obviously contradictory ideas and traditions. The parallels that Hoeller draws between his brand of gnosticism and Tolkien are contrived at best. As I said before, making Tolkien into a theologian is dangerous, because he never intended to write theology, especially gnostic theology! Its alright, in my opinion, to point out obvious parallels in Tolkien’s writings to his Catholic faith. Just as it is alright to point out parallels between Middle Earth and Anglo-Saxon, Icelandic, and Scandinavian culture and history. It is fine to see Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon mythology at work in Tolkien’s Middle-Earth, but just because Tolkien was a student of pre-Norman Europe, knew and loved the mythology and languages, and used them extensively in his works, certainly doesn’t make him or his works pagan. This seems to be the argument that Hoeller makes, based on his exercise of forcing his gnostic worldview onto Tolkien’s Middle Earth. Don't get me wrong! Its not my intention to attack anyone or anyone's beliefs. However, to make Tolkien and his books into something they are not is to do violence to him and his genius. [ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ] __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.