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Old 02-02-2004, 06:55 PM   #14
Desultory Dwimmerlaik
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~*~ DWARVES ~*~

Tolkien Gateway Wiki: Dwarves

Dwarves - Wikipedia - Click on Dwarves(Middle Earth) once you've accessed this page.

Them Dwarves, Them Dwarves (Suite 101 article)

Them Dwarves, Them Dwarves II (Suite 101 article)


The Dwarvish language - Khuzdul


Where Tolkien Got His Dwarf-names From


From Pio

For all you Dwarf fans:

Parts of an axe can be found HERE.

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~*~ ELVES ~*~

Elven hair color

From Pio

Red Hair


~*~ Eye Color ~*~

From Pio

Return of the King – Appendix F: Tolkien’s description for the Quendi (The Speakers) – the name given to the Elves by themselves after they first awoke in Middle-earth.

“They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as Kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that is now heard . . .”

Please use this as a guideline for crafting your Elven character’s appearance.


Quendi (The Speakers) is the name given to the Elves by themselves, when they first awoke. The Vala, Oromë, when he found the Elves after their awakening, named them the Eldar (People of the Stars). After the summons of the Valar to return to the West, the name Eldar was used only for those three branches of the Elven race who answered the call and did complete the journey: Noldor, Vanyar, and most of the Teleri (the Nandor and Sindar were the names of the groups of Telerin who turned back from the journey).

The Nandor (Telerin; meaning ‘Those who turn back’. Also called LaiQuendi: the Green Elves of Ossiriand) were a woodland people (Silvan Elves) for the most part



The Sindar (Telerin; meaning The Grey Elves after their primary leader Thingol Greycloak) were found in most parts of Beleriand, especially Doriath and the Falas.


So saying – All of Elven kind are clustered under the name ‘Quendi’ – and since there are exceedingly few intermarriages of Man and Elf, (and I have read papers on genotyping where the Elven characteristics would most likely take dominance), there is nothing introduced into the gene pool of the Elves which would produce green eyes for an Elf.


~*~ The Avari ~*~

The Silmarillion was not Tolkien’s final thoughts on the subject matter contained within its covers. This is a reference from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Humphrey Carpenter, with the assistance of Christopher Tolkien.

From Letter #144, where Tolkien talks about the Elves, or Quendi, as they originally called themselves:

They are represented as having become early divided in to two, or three varieties. 1. The Eldar who heard the summons of the Valar or Powers to pass from Middle-earth over the Sea to the West; and 2. the Lesser Elves who did not answer it. Most of the Eldar after a great march reached the
Western Shores and passed over the Sea; these were the High Elves, who became immensely enhanced in powers and knowledge. But part of them in the event remained in the coast-lands of the North-west: these were the Sindar or the Grey-elves. The lesser Elves hardly appear, except as part of the people of the Elf-realm; of Northern Mirkwood, and of Lórien, ruled by the Eldar; their languages do not appear.
The Avari would be part of the Lesser Elves that Tolkien spoke of. And it would appear that he is saying they are subsumed into the Silvan (Woodland Elves) realms of Northern Mirkwood (Greenwood the Great) and Lórien.


One last thing – It is not correct to equate the term Dark Elf solely with the Avari. The term includes the Elves who turned back from starting the great Journey, the Nandor and the Sindar, as well as the Avari (tr. ‘Those who refused the summons’ – or ‘The Unwilling’)


The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Appendix of Languages, pg 79

“For there were other Elves of various kind in the world; and many were Eastern Elves that had hearkened to no summons to the Sea, but being content with Middle-earth remained there, and remained long after, fading into fastnesses of the woods and hills, as Men usurped the lands. Of that kind were the Elves of Greenwood the Great; yet among them also were many lords of Sindarin race. Such were Thranduil and Legolas his son. In his realm and in Lorien both the Sindarin and the woodland tongues were heard; but of the latter nothing appears in this book, and of many Elvish names of persons or of places are used most are of Grey-elven form.”


From Man-of-the-Wold: Post 9 HERE


With respect to questions of Avari/east-elves, J.R.R. Tolkien seems to have semi-intentionally blurred the matter of the Teleri-Nandor (initially Noldor-Danian), which split off before crossing the Misty Mountains, remembering also that there were other offshoots and lingerers (almost exclusively Teleri) between the first and second sundering of the Great March.

Consistently, the terms "East-elves" and “Eldar” should not be seen as mutually exclusive. In fact, the Nandor, and later the Silvan Elves in large part, were to some degree both: they were neither true Eldar, nor true Avari.

The true Avari were of all three kindreds, and at most, only some of them had gone just a very little way on the Great March before turning back completely and returning to Cuiviénen. But later they did spread out, and some probably wondered westward and joined up with Telerin Elves, who had turned aside in regions around what became the Sea of Rhûn or lands further west. This happened over ages and ages of time.

The Teleri, who turned aside at the Misty Mountains and were led by Lenwë south along the eastern side the Misty Mountains—i.e., the Nandor—eventually spread (as well) throughout southern Eriador and probably into what became Gondor through the early Second Age. Recall that Shelob had once had Elven victims.

These were not safe areas, however. Morgoth and his creatures terrorized areas east of the Ered Luin, hence the removal of many if not most of these Elves to Ossiriand under Denethor's leadership. Later in the Second Age, these Nandorin elves of Eriador and the lower Anduin would have fallen victim to Sauron's hegemony as it issued out of Mordor.

The Nandor who survived, but had not become the Green Elves of Beleriand, ended up mostly in the Upper Vales of Anduin. Here they acquired help from Grey and Green-Elves out of Beleriand, as well as Galadriel, and later some High-Elven refugees from Eregion. Quite probably, Amroth and his father were direct descendents of Lenwë.

Through the Second Age and Third Age these "Silvan Elves" were more and more concentrated in either Lothlórien or the northeast sector of Greenwood the Great, especially when it became Mirkwood under the Necromancer's influence. The rise of Dol Guldor thus contributed to the decline of intercourse between these two remnant—but still throughout the Third Age—thriving communities.

Who were they then by this point? Still to some extent "Eldarin" Nandor, to be sure, as would be necessary for explaining why Amroth, Nimrodel and others would have been drawn and allowed to pass over the Sea. Like Legolas, who might have been at least half-Nandor, these Eastern Eldar seem to have gone always through Gondor, where their ancestors may have also once wandered. The Grey Havens seem mostly reserved for the Beleriandic Eldar.

The Silvan Elves were not so much Nandorin in any pure or direct sense, however. Likely, they were augmented with other (Telerin) lingerers from the Great March east of Anduin, who had eventually wandered further westward, as well as significant numbers of true Avari. There were also eastward-moving Laiquendi and Sindar, who desired to return to simpler ways and were assimilated as part of Silvan society.

Arguably, this best describes the Wood-Elves (and raft-elves) of Thranduil's realm by the late Third-Age, which probably had significant representation from Beleriandic Elves or their descendents—as much as 10 percent or even more—but included no High-Elves. The great majority were likely still of Nandorin-blood (20–40 percent) and those of more eastern extraction (50–70 percent). The language spoken there seems disputed. It may have been a surviving "Silvan" dialect akin to original Telerin, or they may have mostly relied the Common Speech, since they were not too terribly isolated from other peoples, and it may have been a convenient lingua franca among differing Eldarin and Avarian tongues.

The Galadrim used a Sindarin dialect, and it seems likely that a great many of their numbers were Beleriandic. Perhaps more distinct from the main society, there might have also been a small number of High-Elves there, like Galadriel. Possibly a majority were still non–Laiquendi Nandor. Those of more eastern extraction represented a smaller portion than they would have in Thranduil's realm, but possibly were still quite common.

So, in summary, there is gradation and some non-certitude as regards “East-elves” and “Eldar,” which may not have been unacceptable to J.R.R. Tolkien, in this particular case.

These amalgamated realms of elves in Wilderland were also something of an exception to the rule about Elves in general. By the time of the War of the Rings, they were not really fading but rather quite vibrant. Consequently, it was most appropriate that Legolas, rather than a Noldorin lord, was a member of the Fellowship. He was at least partially of Sindarin descent, but he was also of a Third-Age generation from Elven lands that were still significant in the world at that time.


Thoughts on Healing Powers - HERE

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~*~ MEN ~*~

From Sophia the Thunder Mistress

Here is a quick reference on Aragorn and a family tree for him.


From Pio

Here is a Family Tree for Eldarion, Aragorn and Arwen's son: (A caution: near the bottom of the chart - where the names Arvedui and Firiel are - you need to reverse the positions of those names. Firiel is the daughter of Ondoher)


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~*~ THE VALAR ~*~

From Envinyatar

Need some info on the Valar:



Last edited by piosenniel; 02-20-2011 at 09:39 PM.
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