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Old 03-23-2009, 10:51 AM   #65
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Sorry for my unannounced absence (at least it was days and not months this time!).

Findegil wrote:
Quote:
a) When did Andróg got his wound healed by Beleg?
Christopher Tolkien did place it in CoH not at the raid in the winter, which brought Beleg upon the track of the outlaws but in the spring of that year. Christopher Tolkien did not use that winter raid at all. Do we us it? And if so, is this the oportunity for Andróg to get his wound?
b) Which curse does Andróg utter against Mîm?
Christopher Tolkien used in CoH the one with the arrow in the throat. And reading the Narn he gives that version some more wieght their as well.
c) How does Mîm die in the end?
My image from the text of TT was a blow with Húrins fist that felt the old Dwarf. At least it was not with bow and arrow since it was said Húrin 'smite' him. But then we have the Q30 text and last but not least the note in the plot synopsis given in WH, which do not at all mention how Mîm dies.
a) Here again it would be useful to know whether CT adopted the version in CoH because he concluded that it was the final idea found in the Narn texts or merely for editorial reasons. Certainly in UT it seems to be suggested that the winter raid constitutes the 'main' story insofar as that can be discerned. And again in UT there is no clear suggestion of when and how Androg was to be wounded if not during that raid. In the absence of a 'History of the Narn', I'm inclined to take UT as more authoritative in this instance and therefore to keep the raid and place Androg's wounding and healing there.

b) Here what appears to be the 'main version' in UT (where the alternative curse is, after all, an 'alternative') agrees with what is used in CoH. Therefore, I'm inclined to keep the 'dart in his throat' version of the curse.

c) This is, of course, related to b but should really be considered independently. As Findegil notes, a curse (particularly that of a mere man) need not come true. On the other hand, Findegil also makes a strong case that image of the traitor to Turin’s band dying with an arrow in his throat seems to have been a lasting one. My one reservation about this argument is the ‘alternative curse’. Even if we decide not to follow it, doesn’t the fact that Tolkien considered this as a possibility indicate that Mim’s death by an arrow was not completely fixed in his mind? On the other hand, it may be that he rejected the alternative curse in favor of the ‘main version’ precisely because he wanted Mim’s fate to be the same as that which had been Blodren’s. So I think there is a good (if not perfect) case for having Mim killed by an arrow.

A distinct question is who kills Mim. Here I think we have a good (though again not perfect) case that it must be Hurin. To repeat my earlier summary of the sources:

Quote:
1. In TT, Hurin smites Mim for his 'evil words'.
2. In Q30, Hurin's men kill Mim 'though Hurin would have stayed them".
3. In the annalistic plot-synopsis for the 'Narn' (partially given in XI with 'Wanderings') there is a brief statement that 'Hurin comes to Nargothrond and slays Mim'.
So Tolkien’s last word on the identity of Mim’s killer seems to be that it was Hurin. We have, then, three possibilities:

1. Hurin kills Mim with an arrow. This would be ideal but it may be difficult to form the actual text.
2. Hurin kills Mim but not with an arrow. Violates both Androg’s curse and (probably) Tolkien’s final idea on how Mim was killed. Very easy to do, since we can largely follow TT. This is what we did previously.
3. One of Hurin’s men kills Mim with an arrow. Violates (probably) Tolkien’s final idea on who killed Mim. Probably easier to accomplish textually than 1 but harder than 2.

I am somewhat inclined toward 1, though I need to look further into how difficult this would be to implement.

Last edited by Aiwendil; 02-01-2013 at 02:03 PM.
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