The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR -- Book 6 - Chapter 5

Aiwendil · 10-24-2005, 10:58 AM

Fordim: I half agree with you.

About Eowyn: I am also unsettled by the way in which this chapter seems to "put Eowyn back in her place". I go back and forth on whether this is a flaw, though. A few points that I think might be made in defense of Eowyn's development here:

1. Her transformation is not altogether distinct from the post-war transformation that affects all the characters - male and female. With the war over, it is not only Eowyn that will be putting away her arms.

2. I think that to some extent her change here may be seen not as forsaking her earlier ideals, but rather as coming to terms with the establishment. Like so many young radicals, she has come to a point in her life where she has decided that there are things she'd rather do than lash out against society's inequitites. Whether this is the acquisition of wisdom or the betrayal of idealism is an open question.

3. Whether Eowyn's change is a good thing or a bad, it is believable. The portrayal of sexism, or of sexist attitudes, need not be sexist itself; and often it is in fact necessary for the sake of believability, since such attitudes do actually exist.

But none of these is a compelling argument, for Eowyn's transformation is indeed portrayed as a good thing.

About Arwen: Here I disagree. I'm glad that Tolkien didn't spend any more time of the Aragorn/Arwen story. I think there's a danger in writing of trying to make each character's motivations and inner feelings as evident as possible; this can, counter-intuitively, make characters less deep, less interesting, because it gives the reader the impression that he or she knows the character thoroughly. Too much emphasis on his romance with Arwen would have made Aragorn's character too transparent, in my opinion.

Also, as Tolkien's love stories go, I must say that I've always found the Aragorn/Arwen story fairly dull. If it were of the caliber of Beren/Luthien or Turin/Finduilas or Aredhel/Eol I think spending more time on it would be justified. But in my view it's not substantial enough to sustain much more development.

10-24-2005, 10:58 AM	#6
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Fordim: I half agree with you. About Eowyn: I am also unsettled by the way in which this chapter seems to "put Eowyn back in her place". I go back and forth on whether this is a flaw, though. A few points that I think might be made in defense of Eowyn's development here: 1. Her transformation is not altogether distinct from the post-war transformation that affects all the characters - male and female. With the war over, it is not only Eowyn that will be putting away her arms. 2. I think that to some extent her change here may be seen not as forsaking her earlier ideals, but rather as coming to terms with the establishment. Like so many young radicals, she has come to a point in her life where she has decided that there are things she'd rather do than lash out against society's inequitites. Whether this is the acquisition of wisdom or the betrayal of idealism is an open question. 3. Whether Eowyn's change is a good thing or a bad, it is believable. The portrayal of sexism, or of sexist attitudes, need not be sexist itself; and often it is in fact necessary for the sake of believability, since such attitudes do actually exist. But none of these is a compelling argument, for Eowyn's transformation is indeed portrayed as a good thing. About Arwen: Here I disagree. I'm glad that Tolkien didn't spend any more time of the Aragorn/Arwen story. I think there's a danger in writing of trying to make each character's motivations and inner feelings as evident as possible; this can, counter-intuitively, make characters less deep, less interesting, because it gives the reader the impression that he or she knows the character thoroughly. Too much emphasis on his romance with Arwen would have made Aragorn's character too transparent, in my opinion. Also, as Tolkien's love stories go, I must say that I've always found the Aragorn/Arwen story fairly dull. If it were of the caliber of Beren/Luthien or Turin/Finduilas or Aredhel/Eol I think spending more time on it would be justified. But in my view it's not substantial enough to sustain much more development.