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Old 11-05-2017, 08:56 PM   #57
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,140
Aiwendil has been trapped in the Barrow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcusCalion
also I think Fin's "were" addition in the 15b sentence should be "where" and should come before the comma.
Yes, I missed that typo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcusCalion
I have a minor point: Should the term Outer Lands be used? or should it not be changed to Middle-earth, to avoid the confusion of what is meant?
Good point. I think it must be changed. In 'The Coming of the Valar', the Outer Lands are defined as the Twilit Isles, Eruman, and Valinor; but in later writings the Outer Lands are all the lands east of Valinor (including Middle-earth). Perhaps it would be safest to simply remove "that were set beyond the Outer Lands". So:

Quote:
... where the light of both the Lamps met and blended. BoT-13.7 <LT {Rather}[Now] was it {his}[some of the Valar’s] counsel that each of {the Valar}them should now depart and dwell amid those things that he loved upon Earth, nor should any seek to extend his sway beyond its just boundaries.{ In this there was some covert reflection upon Manwe and Ulmo, but}But of the {Gods}[Valar] some {took his words in faith and} would use {his}[this] advice, but others {distrusted}[dissented]; and in the midst of their debate Ulmo arose and went to the Outermost Seas {that were set beyond the Outer Lands}. He loved not high words nor concourse of folk, and in those deep waters moveless and empty he purposed to dwell, leaving the governance of the Great and lesser seas to Ossė and {Onen}[Uinen] his vassals. Yet ever of his magic deep in his outermost sea-halls of Ulmonan he controlled the faint stirrings of the{ Shadowy} Seas, and ruled the lakes and springs and rivers of the world.>BoT-13.8 <LT It was the rede of Aulė and of his wife {Palurien}[Kementįri], for they were the most grieved by the mischief of {Melko}[Melkor]'s turmoils{ and trusted his promises not at all}, that the {Gods}[Valar] should not separate{ as he bid}, lest {he}[Melkor] take it into his heart perchance to attack them singly or do hurt to their possessions. "Is he not," said they, "more powerful than any one of us{ save Manwe only}? Rather let us build a dwelling wherein we may abide in joy together, faring only at need to the care and survey of our goods and fiefs. There even such as be of other mind may dwell at times, and find rest and pleasance after labours in the world." Now Aulė's mind and fingers itched already to be making things, and he urged this matter the more for that; and to most of the {Gods}[Valar] it seemed a good counsel, and they fared about the world seeking a place to dwell in.> And{ there} upon the Isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was made the first dwelling of the {gods}[Valar] when all things were young, and new-made green was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers{; and they were long content}.>BoT-15b<AAm {and}And that lake was between Illuin and Ormal in the midmost of Arda where, because of the blending of the lights, all things were richest in growth an fairest of hue. But the Valar were seldom there gathered in company, for ever they would fare abroad in Arda, each in his own business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gondowe
Perhaps now in this time Manwė and Melkor were equal and the Valar knew It?
I don't think this can be the case, since after this Melkor manages to destroy the Lamps and the Valar cannot overcome him. In any case, we know that the conception of Melkor's power is much greater in the later Legendarium than in the Lost Tales, so I think we should delete the phrase for safety.

Last edited by Aiwendil; 11-05-2017 at 09:13 PM.
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