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Old 01-13-2005, 06:34 AM   #14
Findegil
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Following the fact that Melian did leave Menegroth before the attack of the Dwarves she did no longer talk to Naugladur and thus he can clearly not remeber any words of her. Thus we have to change §48 to:
Quote:
§48 (§325) <TN But now stood Naugladur and few were about him, and {he remembered the words of Gwendelin, for} behold, Beren came towards him and he RD-EX-78 {cast aside his bow}<editorial edition based on UT gave the Bow of Bregor, that he had used, to Dior>, and drew a bright sword; and Beren was of great stature{ among the Eldar}, albeit not of the girth and breadth of Naugladur of the Dwarves.>
In addtion I found this in TY:
Quote:
503 … Now Curufin and Celegorm hearing of the sack of Menegroth ambushed the Dwarves at the fords of Ascar and defeated them; but the Dwarves cast the gold into the river, which was after named Rathloriel. …
With the commentary on that part by Christopher Tolkien:
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The ford at which the Dwarves were ambushed, not now itself named, is still over Ascar, not Gelion (see p. 347). The statement that the Dwarves 'cast the gold into the river' is at variance with the story told in the Sketch and the Quenta (where this was done by Beren and the Green-elves), and was perhaps a conscious return to the tale of The Nauglafring (II.237), in which the gold fell into the river with the bodies of the Dwarves who bore it, or else was cast into the water by Dwarves seeking to reach the banks.
If we accept that view, I think we should change our decision about RD-SL-27. If Tolkien wanted the picture of the hord casted into the river by the dying and flying dwarves we have to change the Ford at which the battle was lunched led over Ascar. Since the second Silmarillion map should not be dismissed so easiely, I study that map again: The dots that mark the Dwarf-Road end slightly before ths Mountians are reached. The Road cross the River Gelion at Sarn Athrad (both still so named in that map) a good deal north of the confluence of Gelion and Ascar. The Road runs than parallel to the Ascar until the dots end. At that point the Ascar bend slightly but stadiely to the north. If the road would have run in a straight line from the last dot to the place of Nogord it would have crossed the Ascar just south of its source. But we are talking about a mountain pass, thus it is more than unlikly that the road did run in straight line.
Conclusion: The map does not over an clear explaination for the problem at hand, but it does provide use with some freedom of interpretation, since not all features are drawn.
That Ascar was not crossable near to its confluence is witnessed by the tale of the People of Haleth and there stand against the orcs. They withdrawn into the angle between Gelion and Ascar and it is clear that both rivers were an effective protection.
Considering the passage from TY we need a ford over Ascar. If the mountian pass did follow the river (as is likely for such roads) it is possible to supposed that it did so on the south bank. If the road did bend south at the point were the dots end, it would have crossed the river a bit further from its source.
After that long winding discussion I will know give an alternative text for some § that is soppossed to follow TY by placing the fight at the Ford over Ascar. Since the names discussed earlier were clearly meant to be the ford over Gelion [Duin Daer] I have not taken them for the Ford of Ascar. Thus the Ford of the ambush is unnamed.
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§43b (§316) To the north of that region is a ford across the river {Gelion}[Duin Daer], near to its joining with Ascar that falls in torrents from the mountains; and that ford is named {Sarn-athrad}[Athrad Daer], the [Great ]Ford{ of Stones}. <editorial addition And further on that road forded the River Ascar.> {This ford}These fords the Dwarves must past ere they reached the mountain passes that led unto their homes {and there Beren fought his last fight, warned of their approach by Melian}. RD-EX-68<Sil77 Now word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of Dwarves bearing gear of war had come down out of the mountains and passed over {Gelion}[Duin Daer] at the [Great ]Ford{ of Stones}. These tidings came soon to Beren and Lúthien>.



§46b (§319) <TN Now not even Beren knew the tale of those{ myriad} folk that followed his horn in the woods of{ Hisilome}[Ossiriand], and or ever the moon was high above the hills {the host}[a small company] assembled in the glade of his abiding {was very}[seemed him] great[ enough], yet were they lightly armed and the most bore only knives and bows. ‘Yet,’ said Beren, ‘speed is that which now we need the most’; and certain Elves at his bidding fared like deer before him, seeking news of the march of the Dwarves{ and Indrafangs}, but at dawn he followed at the head of the green Elves, RD-EX-71 <Sil77 and summoning to him Dior his son he left Tol Galen and they went north to the River Ascar.> {and}But Tinúviel abode in the glade and wept unto herself for the death of [Thingol]{Tinwelint, and Gwendelin also she mourned as dead}.>

§46c (§320) <TN Now is to tell that the laden host of the Dwarves fared from the place of their ransacking, and Naugladur was at their head>. RD-EX-72 <TN {Now tells the tale that}And he fell in with the rangers of Beren's folk, and these gaining{ from him} sure knowledge of all the host and array of Naugladur and the ways he purposed to follow, they sped back like wind among the trees unto their lord;{ but Ufedhin revealed not to them who he was, feigning to be an Elf of Artanor escaped from bondage in their host. Now therefore they entreated him well, and he was sent back to Beren that their captain might ............ his words, and albeit Beren marvelled at his [?cowardly]......’ and downward glance it seemed to him that he brought safe word,} and he set a trap for Naugladur. RD-EX-73 { No longer did he march hotly on the trail of the Dwarves, but knowing}Knowing that they would essay the passage of the river {Aros}[Ascar] at a certain time he turned aside, faring swiftly with his light-footed Elves by straighter paths that he might reach {Sarnathrod} the{ Stony} Ford before them. Now the {Aros}[Ascar] is a fierce stream RD-EX-74 { - and is it not that very water that more near its spring runs swiftly past the aged doors of the Rodothlim's caves and the dark lairs of Glorund' -} and in those lower regions by no means can be crossed by a great host of laden men save at this ford, nor is it overeasy here. Never would Naugladur have taken that way had he knowledge of Beren - yet blinded by the spell and the dazzling gold he feared nought either within or without his host, and he was in haste to reach Nogrod and its dark caverns{, for the Dwarves list not long to abide in the bright light of day}.>

§46d (§321) <TN Now came all that host to the banks of {Aros}[Ascar], and their array was thus: first a number of unladen Dwarves most fully armed, and amidmost the great company of those that bore the treasury of {Glorund}[Glaurung], and many a fair thing beside that they had haled from {Tinwelint}[Thingol]'s halls; and behind these was Naugladur{, and he bestrode Tinwelint's horse, and a strange figure did he seem, for the legs of the Dwarves are short and crooked, but two Dwarves led that horse for it went not willingly and it was laden with spoil}. But behind {these}him came again a mass of armed men but little laden; and in this array they sought to cross {Sarnathrod}[the Ford of the Ascar] on their day of doom.>

§46e (§322) <TN Morn was it when they reached the hither bank and high noon saw them yet passing in long-strung lines and wading slowly the shallow places of the swift-running stream. Here doth it widen out and fare down narrow channels filled with boulders atween long spits of shingle and stones less great. Now did Naugladur{ slip from his burdened horse and }prepare to get him over, for the armed host of the vanguard had climbed already the further bank, and it was great and sheer and thick with trees, and the bearers of the gold were some already stepped thereon and some amidmost of the stream, but the armed men of the rear were resting awhile.>

§46f (§323) <TN Suddenly {is}was all that place filled with the sound of {elfin}[elvish] horns, and one {...}[brayed] with a clearer blast above the rest, and {it is}that was the horn of Beren, the huntsman of the woods. Then {is}was the air thick with the slender arrows of the Eldar that err not neither doth the wind bear them aside, and lo, from every tree and boulder do the brown Elves and the green spring suddenly and loose unceasingly from full quivers. Then was there a panic and a noise in the host of Naugladur, and those that waded in the ford cast their golden burdens in the waters and sought affrighted to either bank, but many were stricken with those pitiless darts and fell with their gold into the currents of the {Aros}[Ascar], staining its clear waters with their dark blood.>

§47 (§324) <TN Now were the warriors on the far bank {[? }wrapped{]} in battle and rallying sought to come at their foes, but these fled nimbly before them> RD-EX-75 <Sil77 eastwards towards the mountains. And as {they}[the Dwarves] climbed the long slopes beneath Mount Dolmed <editorial change and entered the woods on the further bank> there came forth the Shepherds of the Trees, and they drove the Dwarves into the shadowy woods of Ered Lindon: whence, it is said, came never one to climb the high passes that led to their homes.> RD-EX-76 <TN Now was that {great }fight of the {Stony }Ford{ ......} nigh to Naugladur>, In that battle the Green Elves took the Dwarves unawares as they were {in the midst of their passage,} laden with their plunder; and the Dwarvish chiefs were slain, and well nigh all their host{.}, RD-EX-77 <TN for even though Naugladur and his captains led their bands stoutly never might they grip their foe, and death fell like rain upon their ranks until the most part broke and fled>.

§48 (§325) <TN But now stood Naugladur and few were about him, and {he remembered the words of {Gwendelin}[Melian], for} behold, Beren came towards him and he RD-EX-78 {cast aside his bow}<editorial addition based on UT gave the Bow of Bregor, that he had used, to Dior>, and drew a bright sword; and Beren was of great stature among the {Eldar}[Edain], albeit not of the girth and breadth of Naugladur of the Dwarves.>



§50 (§327) <TN Now little doth the tale tell of wounds and blows of that affray, save that Beren got many hurts therein, and many of his shrewdest blows did little harm to Naugladur by reason of the {[?}skill{]} and magic of his {dwarfen}[dwarven] mail; and it is said that three hours they fought and Beren's arms grew weary, but not those of Naugladur accustomed to wield his mighty hammer at the forge, and it is more than like that otherwise would the issue have been but for the curse of Mîm; for marking how Beren grew faint Naugladur pressed him ever more nearly, and the arrogance that was of that grievous spell came into his heart, and he thought: ‘I will slay this {Elf}[Man], and his folk will flee in fear before me,’ and grasping his sword he dealt a mighty blow and cried: ‘Take here thy bane, O stripling of the woods,’ and in that moment his foot found a jagged stone and he stumbled forward, but Beren slipped aside from that blow and catching at his beard his hand found the carcanet of gold, and therewith he swung Naugladur suddenly off his feet upon his face: and Naugladur's sword was shaken from his grasp, but Beren seized it and slew him therewith, for he said: ‘I will not, sully my bright blade with thy dark blood, since there is no need.’ But the body of Naugladur was cast into the {Aros}[Ascar].>

§51a (§328) <TN Then did he unloose the necklace, and he gazed in wonder at it - and beheld the Silmaril, even the jewel he won from Angband and gained undying glory by his deed; and he said: ‘Never have mine eyes beheld thee O Lamp of {Faery}[Fëanor] burn one half so fair as now thou dost, set in gold and gems and the magic of the Dwarves’; and that necklace he caused to be washed of its stains, and he cast it not away, knowing nought of its power, but bore it with him back into the woods of {Hithlum}[Ossiriand].>

§51b (§329) RD-EX-79 <TN But the waters of {Aros}[Ascar] flowed on for ever above the drowned hoard of {Glorund}[Glaurung], and so do still, for in after days Dwarves came from Nogrod and sought for it, and for the body of Naugladur; but a flood arose from the mountains and therein the seekers perished; and so great now is the gloom and dread of that {Stony }Ford that none seek the treasure that it guards nor dare ever to cross the{ magic} stream at that enchanted place.



§51f (§333) Yet Melian warned them ever of the curse that lay upon the treasure and upon the Silmaril. The treasure {they had}[was] drowned indeed in the river Ascar, and [they] named it anew Rathloriel, Golden-Bed, yet the Silmaril they retained{.}<movedfrom above, and{ that} for a while the Land of the Dead that Live became like a vision of the land of the {Gods}[Valar], and no places have been since so fair, so fruitful, or so filled with light.
RD-SL-30{And in time the brief hour of the loveliness of the land of Rathloriel departed. For Lúthien faded as Mandos had spoken, even as the Elves of later days faded, when Men waxed strong and usurped the goodness of the earth; and she vanished from the world; and Beren died, and none know where their meeting shall be again. Yet it hath been sung that Lúthien alone of Elves hath been numbered among our race, and goeth whither we go to a fate beyond the world.}
Respectfully
Findegil
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