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Old 09-02-2006, 09:42 AM   #167
The Saucepan Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
You mentioned that they are sometimes at odd with each other or the work - yet this occured due to the changes that happened to the work in progress. At some points in time, he had certain "feelings" about how the work would proceed, which didn't make it in the final form; that isn't, per se, an inconsistency. Moreover, even if such inconsistencies exist in some cases, that is no reason to call those letters in question as inconclusive to showing his mind at that moment; even more, even if so, the "hystorical" type of inconclusiveness of some letters (due to the changing aspect of his work), if it exists, shouldn't be extended to other letters, in which he expressely states his intent - that would be guilt by association, a logical fallacy.
The Letters are good evidence of Tolkien's intent at the time each was written. If, however, one is seeking to divine the "meaning" of LotR by reference to authorial intent, I would regard them as persuasive (to the extent that they do not conflict with other material) but, overall, insuffuficient to allow any firm conclusion to be drawn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
Why is it wrong to suggest such a thing?
Because it implies that those who do not percevie or accept such a connection have an inferior appreciation of the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
As about creation and subcreation, I use this term because this is the supreme artistic achievement for Tolkien - a successful writer is a veritable sub-creator, whose Art reflects God's Truth.
As I suspected. It implies the existence of a Creator and thus bases the dicussion on a premise which not all accept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
Is the life of orcs one of continuous unhappiness (at least to them)? I doubt it; they certainly derive pleasure from their fetishism with machines, or with whatever cruel art or deeds - no single race in Arda experiences only pleasure or only pain. The orcs may not even be held culpable for what they did, if they are indeed gifted with souls and not just (reduced to) beasts.
You didn't provide any example of an orc being shown mercy. But that doesn't matter, because it's actually OK being an Orc. You get to play with cool machinery and be brutish and cruel and everything, and you don't get to feel guilty. You may not even be held responsible for what you do. Boy, Eru sure is a loving and merciful God to allow them to live such a life of Reilly.

As I read that passage about Frodo, it seems to me that Tolkien is saying the Frodo failed, but that his failure was negated or absolved by divine mercy. To my mind, Frodo didn't fail at all. He did all that was required of him (as stated in the second passage you quote which, funnily enough, appears to contradict the first ).
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