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Old 03-16-2018, 07:26 PM   #47
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.R.J Tolkien View Post
without direct quotes to look up or the care/energy to. I think this cannot progress. Maybe we can be lazy and Eldorion can give us some of the quotes
You don't trust my characterizations of the references? Do I need to post all of 'em? That's a lot of typing

But here's some copy and paste of one of my old posts: some of the examples, with CJRT's alterations.


1: 'Wherefore each embassy came with greater force than was agreed, but Morgoth sent the greater, and they were Balrogs. Maidros was ambushed...' Of The Siege of Angband (Quenta Silmarillion) [] '... but Morgoth sent the more, and there were Balrogs.' Of The Return of the Noldor (The Silmarillion)

2: 'Sauron came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower, with a host of Balrogs.' Of the Ruin of Beleriand And the Fall of Fingolfin (Quenta Silmarillion) [] '... named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion.' Of The Ruin Of Beleriand (The Silmarillion)

3: 'There came wolves and serpents, and there came Balrogs one thousand,...' Of the Fourth Battle: Nírnaith Arnediad (Quenta Silmarillion) [] 'There came wolves and wolfriders, and there came Balrogs, and dragons...' Of The Fifth Battle (The Silmarillion)

1 This description (from the QS tradition) survived into LQS despite a number of other post Lord of the Rings revisions to this chapter.

2 The second example (Orodreth and etc) also was not revised -- with Tolkien even altering §143 of the chapter, but not the 'host' of Balrogs passage.

3 The third example 'survived' too, but noting CJRT's description under The Last Chapters Of The Quenta Silmarillion, it looks like JRRT never really got around to truly revising this chapter in any case.

4 The Grey Annals contains 'Balrogs a thousand' §230, but nothing is noted as to any changes in the later 1950s.


It's not unreasonable that these references survived simply because Tolkien missed them, or never got around to altering them. I must admit that example two does seem especially odd, but I can't recall if the chronology is detailed enough to arrive at an answer that way, and in any case, for example, we do have CJRT's own warning about Tolkien's "cursory" correction with respect to the conclusion of QS, perhaps suggesting that sometimes Tolkien could make alterations while not fully revising everything in the same text.

I would agree that that could easily become a slippery slope in given arguments however, so I'll just end with...

... or something else

Last edited by Galin; 03-16-2018 at 08:10 PM.
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