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Old 12-12-2012, 06:16 AM   #78
elbenprincess
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
elbenprincess has just left Hobbiton.
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The same applies to Elrond and Rivendell. The difference is Melian was up against Morgoth, Galadriel could not keep out Sauron. Without Numenor all of eastern Elvish Kingdoms would have been destroyed. Galadriel would not hope to take on the host of Sauron. Luthien actually DID take on the host of Morgoth.
It is stated that Galadriel
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Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur; but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.
Nothing similiar is said regarding Elrond, later in the passage she resebles Luthien in her deed to destroy Dol Guldur. So I would agree that Galadriel somewhat takes the place of Melian, her defence of Lorien is similar to that of Doriath, just to a lesser degree. And that she could see Saurosn thought and still her thougts are hidden from him.

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It is Elrond who is given the most powerful ring
Elrond was not even the original bearer, the three were given to the tree greatest of the Eldar (of this time) Galadriel, Cirdan and Gil Galad.

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It's better to reject the temptation at the first test. This is usually better for you and all your friends. Compare the lives of the Noldor to the lives of the Vanyar.
The more powerful you are, the more tempted you are, the ring wanted the strongest master to come again to his real master.
Besides Galadriel has good reason to be tempted, more than Elrond, she was really in a dilemma, we must assume that she thought of her self as still being banned and allowing the ring to be destroyed could probably destroy her last home, for before the temptation she wouldnīt know that she could return to Valinor.
Elrond wouldnīt have this pressure, if things would went terribly wrong, he could take Arwen and flee to Aman, Galadriel never wold have the possibility, being banned.

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Galadriel was contemplating to steel the ring
She never planned to take the ring, she was tempted, but she didnīt ask Frodo to look in der mirror, just to get the ring.

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Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve
So even before Frodo entered Lorien she decided to refuse the ring.

When I compare the Noldor to the Vanya, the Vanya sure had the more comfortable life, but the Noldor were the heroes, matter of histories, legnds and songs, they made the more important deeds, they had a fullfilled life, the Vanyar were always in their golden cage, they never learned to take care of themselves. I wouldnīt want the life of a Vanyar, that wouldnīt satisfy me. I can understand the Noldor, they wanted to see what they were able to achieve alone, without the help of the Valar, of course there is a risk, but they accepted that. Individual fulfilment was very important to them and for that they had to leave Aman at least for a time.

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If they had petitioned the Valar reasonably (like Galadriel does in some accounts) then the Valar would have granted their request. It was the manner of the their rebelling, which led to the curse.
Could they really be sure that they would granted their wish, there is no accord that anyone if leaving Aman to ME except the Istati and Glorfindel. Maybe some were afraid that they never would get the opportunity.

And again, WHY does the Noldor have to ask the Valar to leave? Arenīt they free? Thatīs really not their business where the Eldar are going and why must they give a good reason, itīs their life and they can do with it what they want.

And if the Valar later would allow them to leave, why not allow them at this point to leave, does it really matter if they leave 100 years earlier or 100 years later?
It seems to me they were overcharged.
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and she became involved in the desperate measures of Manwe, and the ban on all emigration
They really had no idea what they were doing. Something was going against their wishes and so they had to punish everyody and not just the Noldor who deserves the punishment (The kinslayers and oathtakers).


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The Noldor leave to fight Morgoth having no clue about his true power for mainly selfish reasons.
I donīt think the majority wanted to fight Morgoth, I think the most, like Galadriel just wanted to see new lands. Isnīt it somewhere noted that the Noldor long before Morgoth influenced them had the desire to go to ME, but that it just came to the surface during Feanors rebellion?

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They were deluded and were corrupted by Morgoth, because Manwe is the King of Arda not just Aman. Where ever they tried to go they could not escape the authority of the Valar. The Teleri worked hard on their ships, the Vanyar on poetry and singing. The Noldor's reasons for returning were mostly due to the lies of Morgoth.
That is the problem, "where ever they tried to go they could not escape the authority of the Valar" isnīt that terrible? Itīs like a big jail, or like you would never be able to move away from your parents, cause they force you to stay in a little vilage.

I donīt see them being corrupted by Morgoth just because they wanted to leave Aman, they had dreams. Itīs true, Arda belonged to the Valar but I see no crime in the need to be a little distanced from them, because you want to make your own experiences, that doesnīt mean that the Eldar who went into exil didnīt love the Valar anymore. Maybe the Valar thought that the Noldor donīt love them anymore, but Galadriel for example, and certaily other Noldor, still revered the Valar very much.

Last edited by elbenprincess; 12-12-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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