[Kath]

Well, two pages by this time isn't as bad as I thought it might be! This working from home malarkey means I can actually get on here at a normal time as well and have time to read everything instead of frantically skimming through it all in the last few hours. Whether that will be of any help though remains to be seen!

Caveat to that: I'm doing this amidst school work so I started at 9:45 and will simply keep refreshing as I go. Goodness only knows what time it will be when it gets posted!

I have just been reading through the rules post on the discussion thread as I saw there had been some questions about particular rules on the way through. There are some really intriguing bits!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There is a kind of a secondary victory condition as well. If the Villagers manage to keep Lalaith safe, they get a lot of credit and can prize themselves for keeping up the cause of beauty and goodness in this dark and evil world. This concerns the QT especially as players there already know their characters and should be more concerned also about that side of the story.

Am I right that the Innocent Child and Lalaith are the same role? I don't think I've played with that role before. Also I love the idea of a secondary story going on behind the scenes.

There's been some talk about Cobbler-identifying along the way as well. But the rules state that the Cobbler counts for the Innocent tally, so picking them out over finding wolves doesn't really help matters. I recall games where knowing someone was the Cobbler was a relief because at least you could then just ignore the crazy, though!

Oh, I should read before writing. The Innocent Child = Urwen/Lalaith.

Right, onto the actual game thread.

Ach, I can't remember how you quote within a quote. Like, have two people's posts in one. This will look messy, sorry.

Originally Posted by Lommy

What, are you suggesting we commit mass suicide? A very... cobbleresque suggestion

Originally Posted by G55

Well... I suppose, technically, if we all learn from RL examples and willingly quarantine ourselves *before* we get sick - i.e. if we all vote ourselves - the only people not to do so will be the baddies, and then Day 2 will be a breeze. Oh lord.


Aaaaand cue discussion about a no-vote Day 1!

So, Lommy's comment came from a joke of Legate's, and then G55's comment seems to be just a continuation of the same. But then, there's no conversation about it other than Legate saying he is glad there are no double lynches. In fact it's G55 that brings it up again.

Originally Posted by G55

Lol. Though this made me think: why didn't the No Lynch debate ever bring up fake votes? Like each person says who they would vote for, but not actually vote. So you have a tally, but no lynch.

I don't really understand the concept. If everyone said who they would vote for, but there's no lynch and no role reveal, then the votes don't tell anything. Also the lynch is the only way of taking a wolf down unless the Hunter is targeted at Night and has picked a wolf.

Originally Posted by Legate

Hey, THAT is actually a pretty good idea. Because seriously. It would kinda force the Wolves' hands (or tongues). I like that. I mean people can of course flip-flop later, but it isn't easy. I like it. I wholeheartedly second it. Let's do this!

Legate then seems quite keen on the idea! But I can't work out whether he means that people should say their votes and then actually vote, because of where he says about flip-flopping here, which suggests he means they could change their minds between stating who they would vote for and then actually voting. Rather than saying who you would vote for but then not voting. If the former, that strikes me as just the same as what people normally do, where they make a list or put forward an idea of who they might vote for a while before the deadline - which I think most people tend to do. If the latter ... it still makes no sense.

So Pitch, Lottie, Inzil, Brinn (Brinn quite vociferously!) are firmly against the no lynch. And Pitch seems to feel Legate is the instigator of it, but really I feel that honour goes to G55. I think I'm reading Legate's comments as still with a real vote, whereas G55's suggest no actual vote. And then G55 adds to that focus on Legate.

Originally Posted by G55

Ok, cobbler much? Even I don't like my idea with so much enthusiasm. I was mainly kinda curious if that tack has ever been tried - and why not, cause it's marginally less bad than the No Votes At All camp.

So was G55 just putting the idea out there to see who would bite? She specifically states here (post 38 - I cannot work out this quoting thing) that she isn't in favour of her own idea. Now, Day 1 discussion can be tough. I mean look, it's her idea that's meant I can really write anything, so on the one hand this is brilliant. It's got people talking, it means there's something to say! But she does seem to be backing away from it quite sharply.

Originally Posted by Boro

Then again, again, when has anything gone according to plan? We plan, and plan, and plan. Then 30 minutes before we're forced to decide we start a new plan and all hell breaks loose.

Boro arrives with a rather dire but entirely accurate prediction of the future.

Yeah, see looking at Legate's post 41 it really seems like he was saying to state a vote but then to also make a vote in the Day. I still think that's pretty much what we do anyway, and so this doesn't really stand out to me as anything.

Originally Posted by Pitch

OK, let's suppose that, say, an hour before DL there's 3 votes for an innocent, 2 for a wolf and 2 for another innocent. If the last to be tied gets quarantined, the wolves need to be on their toes till the last minute to make sure it's not one of them. If it's the first to be tied, they can spread their votes as they like and the first innocent will still be eliminated.

A conversation about when to vote led to this. The rules said it is the first to be tied. I don't think this means the wolves can be entirely relaxed about it, as unless all the innocents had voted before all the wolves there is always the chance of things changing. But any voting, even spread voting, will at least then give everyone someone to work with the following day.

See and then Boro's at it with 'this fake-voting plan of Legate's'. But it wasn't! It was G55's! Pitch and Boro seem to have been thrown by this. I mean, ok, Legate made it into a plan as such, but it wasn't his idea in the first place.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Let's say the latest in the QT thread is a wolf and by some way this happens where there is a tie. The wolf is obviously going to know who their compatriots are, could they throw the vote from the GT?
It would take a bit of finagling and if there is a mix of roles in QT obviously the villagers would know and outvote anything the wolf is trying to suggest. If successful even once it could be the evening of odds they want...

Interesting. Does this suggest a wolf ending up in the QT early on could be an advantage to the wolves? Because if they were there the first QT day they could control the vote? I suppose after that they're pretty much useless, though. Why do I feel like if Nilp was here he'd jump at the chance to self-vote and try it out?

Originally Posted by Mac

I find it very odd how very enthusiastic Legate is about this. My immediate thought was the one that Gala had, too: very cobblerish. A wolf wouldn't stick their head out that far, and one would expect an innocent person to be a bit more measured in their response, weighing pros and cons. Not saying a wolf can't fake a careful approach, of course.

Mac, too. I'm starting to think maybe it's me reading this wrong, but that's why I do posts like this. I don't know if it helps other people, but for myself I'm telling the story of the Day, because I simply can't keep track of things otherwise. And it's telling me G55 started this thing off, not Legate. And I still think Legate was saying state a vote, make a vote, which still seems normal.

I love how Shasta's turned up and basically done what was being proposed anyway!

I'd say the biggest problem with this whole discussion was the use of the phrase: fake vote. Why on earth didn't they get called: planned votes?

And then, two people (Rikae and Brinn) make quick suspicion lists. Which is why I don't think the discussion really needed to happen anyway. People do this naturally. I suppose there's the odd person who appears, throws a vote out of seemingly nowhere and then disappears - but I suspect they wouldn't last too long then anyway!

Ah, Eonwe has the same gist of the whole thing as I do. It's a bit of a relief to have someone else see it the same way by this point! And Hui, although he seems to be suggesting a Pitch-Legate wolf duo as well.

Cobbler discussion came up again. I can't work this out with my shoddy maths. So, the Cobbler counts for the innocents, but if the Cobbler ends up in the QT and their role is known, and the role of any wolves in the QT is also known, does that then advantage the wolves in terms of numbers and help them control the vote - because they all know who each other is even if they can't communicate and so would all just vote the same if that would beat/tie the vote. I was just trying to work out whether trying to keep them in the Game Thread would be a better option, because at least here they don't know who the wolves are. But then their role wouldn't be confirmed either. Ugh.

Ooh! The end. Finished at post 79 before I went bolding in case I cross.

Ok. Well, I didn't like the mis-reading of what happened early on with that voting discussion, but I don't know whether it was confused or purposeful on behalf of those who seemed to really focus on Legate as the ringleader: Pitch, Mac, Boro. I think G55 backing away from it and then seeming like she didn't know where Legate was coming from was odd.

Sorry about the length. I'll be back sporadically. Given this took an hour and a half (!!) don't expect hundreds of posts.