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Old 02-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #17
Lalwendė
A Mere Boggart
 
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Lalwendė is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendė is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
And from Galin's quote from the Osanwe-kenta...a few things...

Quote:
'(...) The things that are most binding are those that in the Incarnates have to do with the life of the hroa itself, its sustenance, and its propagation. Thus eating and drinking are binding, but not the delight in beauty of sound and form. Most binding is begetting or conceiving.

We do not know the axani (laws, rules, as primarily proceeding from Eru) that were laid down upon the Valar with particular reference to their state, but it seems clear that there was no axan against these things. Nonetheless it appears to be an axan, or maybe necessary consequence, that if they are done, then the spirit must dwell in the body that is used, and be under the same necessities as the Incarnate. The only case that is known in the histories of the Eldar is that of Melian (...)

'The great Valar do not do these things: they beget not, neither do they eat and drink, save at the high asari, in token of their lordship and indwelling of Arda, and for the blessing and sustenance of the Childre. Melkor alone became at last bound to a bodily form...'
1. It suggests that maybe it was because of Melkor's great lust that he became very much bound to his physical form. He also did a lot of 'begetting' with the creation and mastery of several races and creatures. Note Tolkien says 'begetting or conceiving' which might suggest more than just the standard reproduction.

2. Also eating and drinking can be binding - how much do we see the Istari doing this? We certainly see Gandalf smoking a lot, which might also be counted as something 'done to the body' that may bind him to the hroa he chose.

3. I note that having a child was the most binding, and no doubt Tolkien chose to do this to emphasise that having a child is a serious thing and you can't just flounce off back to your incorporeal form when you choose once you have kids to fend for. In his writing, he always seems to view family responsibilities as a very serious matter.

I'm also interested in whether we view the Valar/Maiar as having a sex or a gender. Because a gender in the modern understanding may not necessarily mean they looked like we might assume someone of that gender to look. In that respect, an androgynous Ainu would indeed be possible. I quite like that Tolkien seems to suggest they had a choice depending on how they felt. Very modern

Quote:
But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby.
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