The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Silmarillion

Aldarion Elf-Friend · 10-05-2006, 11:17 AM

It's interesting that almost all of the discussion about the Valaquenta to this point has revolved around the first two paragraphs. Anyway, here are some observations that I had, that maybe will spark some discussion.

First, I wonder how Tolkien chose what his various gods would be the "god of". That is, most of them are elemental gods - the god of the air, the god of water, the god of the underworld. With the exception of Nienna, I don't think that any of the emotions are represented. Where's Tolkien's version of Venus? He also eliminated the gods of war and battle from the earlier versions in UT. I wonder why he did this - to keep the pantehon from growing unmanageably large?

Another question that jumped out at me when I was re-reading last night is this: What does it mean that Varda came out of the "deeps of Ea"? It's also interesting that Manwe and Varda are each more powerful when in the presence of the other (regarding sight and hearing).

About that, what's up with the Valar taking spouses? I mentioned in the Ainulindale discussion that this is one major departure of Tolkien from the Christian concept of angels, that "neither gave or were given in marriage". Since the Valar didn't reproduce, what was the purpose of these marriages? I wonder what Tolkien was trying to say (if anything) about marriage in this.

Which brings up another interesting point - not only are Tolkien's spirits marrying and not having any children, they do have siblings. Mandos and Lorien are brothers, and Nienna is their sister. Nessa, Tulkas' wife (and the only actual marriage ceremony of the Valar mentioned in the Silm) is Yavanna's sister. I wonder what this means.

So, food for thought.

edited for typos

10-05-2006, 11:17 AM	#8
Aldarion Elf-Friend Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Playing in Peoria Posts: 35	It's interesting that almost all of the discussion about the Valaquenta to this point has revolved around the first two paragraphs. Anyway, here are some observations that I had, that maybe will spark some discussion. First, I wonder how Tolkien chose what his various gods would be the "god of". That is, most of them are elemental gods - the god of the air, the god of water, the god of the underworld. With the exception of Nienna, I don't think that any of the emotions are represented. Where's Tolkien's version of Venus? He also eliminated the gods of war and battle from the earlier versions in UT. I wonder why he did this - to keep the pantehon from growing unmanageably large? Another question that jumped out at me when I was re-reading last night is this: What does it mean that Varda came out of the "deeps of Ea"? It's also interesting that Manwe and Varda are each more powerful when in the presence of the other (regarding sight and hearing). About that, what's up with the Valar taking spouses? I mentioned in the Ainulindale discussion that this is one major departure of Tolkien from the Christian concept of angels, that "neither gave or were given in marriage". Since the Valar didn't reproduce, what was the purpose of these marriages? I wonder what Tolkien was trying to say (if anything) about marriage in this. Which brings up another interesting point - not only are Tolkien's spirits marrying and not having any children, they do have siblings. Mandos and Lorien are brothers, and Nienna is their sister. Nessa, Tulkas' wife (and the only actual marriage ceremony of the Valar mentioned in the Silm) is Yavanna's sister. I wonder what this means. So, food for thought. edited for typos __________________ Bado go Eru, Aldarion Last edited by Aldarion Elf-Friend; 10-05-2006 at 11:22 AM.