[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boro

What I got is she used the word "kill" instead of "lynch," and morm half-jokingly asked her if that was a Freudian slip, because a wolf would likely see the "lynch" from the POV as "killing."

Originally Posted by Eomer, EDIT: NOT EOMER BUT BORO

I didn't read Agan's response carefully enough, but Lommy interpreted her reaction to it as even worse than an innocent Freudian slip.

Okay, for the last time, let's recapitulate since people seem to be confused by this and think it was "out of proportion" (really? it was Day1? of course all suspicion is "out of proportion"!):

1. Agan uses the village "killing" all Europeans as an example of something.
2. Morm makes fun of her for suggesting we lynch the Europeans (herself thus included).
3. Agan replies to morm by making a joke that she used the word "kill" (instead of "lynch") because she's a wolf and it was a Freudian slip.
4. I find it fishy that Agan interpreted morm's comment as a half-joking questioning of her supposedly wolfy wording (which didn't look wolfy to me in the first place) instead of reading it the same way I did ie that he's making fun of her for wanting the Europeans dead.
5. Tired Agan gets angry because she thinks I think she's stupid and thinks I'm suspicious and grasping at straws, votes for me.
6. I find her overt defensiveness far more condemning than her initial wolvish-ish way of reading morm's comment and vote for her. And yes to be fair I also got angry because I thought the way she was trying to undermine my initial point was offensive and implying I was stupid.

So, as a summary: I wasn't suspicious of Agan because she made a Freudian slip, but because she acted as if she had made one when no one else thought so, and later because she became so defensive over it. I still think that's one of the most substantial grounds for suspicion/voting someone yesterDay.

Furthermore, the only two "weird" things about our mutual suspicion/ argument yesterDay (to me) are:
1) Agan getting over the top defensive
2) us both getting angry at each other for which was silly

Originally Posted by Agan

First off I owe an apology to Lommy. Her original post doesn't look as offensive now that it's not 2 am anymore. In any case, I didn't mean to paint you as stupid or insignificant and am sorry I came across that way (I said ThinLOLmien because your long paragraph about me made actually me go "LOOOOL what the hell's she saying").

Apology accepted!

Originally Posted by Agan

However, I still think she blew my joke way out of proportion - and in two stages too, with the initial "OMG WHAT did I just see ttyl" and then the long (given circumstances) analysis of why my reaction to morm's joke means I'm a wolf. If it had just been the former (as a way of expressing confusion) I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow, but the way she continued, she actually seemed gleeful to find something to latch on and that's really quite fishy.

Okay, the two stages was 1) adding a hurried note about a cross-post because it seriously baffled me and I had not time to look at it more then and 2) rereading it later to check if it really was something. Also I freely admit part of the reason for writing "omg what's Agan saying was that a slip" when not having time to think it through was to fish for a reaction - which I did, interestingly enough, get from Greenie who defended you.

With the risk of beating a dead horse, I still think you wouldn't have made that joke as an innocent because it simply wouldn't have occurred to you, and even if I'm wrong about that, had you been innocent, I'm sure you could have explained yourself more calmly instead of going for a full-blown counter-attack.

I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from to everyone.

~*~

Originally Posted by Mac

He did suspect four people in #130: Nogrod, Loslote, Firefoot, and me. His innocent list contains exactly four people as well, interestingly. If he was the seer, he would have left some hidden hint as to which two of those four people were actually guilty.

It's possible it's all in the wording. I think I may want to check his posts for myself to get an idea - even though, if there's something that looks like he might have seer dreamed someone as innocent, for example, and we assume the wolves latched on it, it's still not exactly super helpful because the person the phantom would've talked about could still be part of the other wolf pack.

Now that I'm thinking about the Night kills, I also think killing the phantom might have had no reason except "this will keep 'em talking".

By the way I notice I keep assuming the Night killed people were innocent, and we can't really know that. But looking for wolf matey connections between them and the living is as random as haphazardly choosing to analyze the connections of a living person. Agh. I'm starting to think there's two ways to proceed in this game: analyzing everything twice as carefully as usual to try to make up for the missing information OR going only by your gut and whatever small things you notice in other people's behaviour. The first option sounds more productive but also way more time consuming...

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Why a wolf would want to tie: 1) Hide in a systemic vote – no voting patterns to trace. (This seems a lot less compelling to me than the not wanting to tie – if I was a wolf, I’d rather just have more people die. I think.)

What about not getting herself or a packmate lynched. I seriously think the wolves would be more concerned about that than the average ordo would be about lynching a gifted. Like, ordos may be rationally concerned about lynching a gifted, but the wolves would be emotionally concerned about themselves or their packmates dying, and I think everybody has some emotional motivation behind their actions while not everybody has rational motivation behind their actions as well. Okay, wow, that sounded pretty mean, but I hope you see what I mean. Also to clarify, I definitely don't think it's irrational for an ordo to prefer a lynch to a tie (quite the contrary anyway but that's not related), I'm only saying an ordo supporting a tie to protect the gifted probably has a rational reasoning behind it while a wolf supporting a tie might just have an emotional reasoning for playing it safe, and since I find emotional reasoning more common in this game than ice cold logic, I definitely don't think it's unsuspicious to want a tie.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Which means that they could spend the whole game targeting "potential Seers" (or, at least, until there's a reveal or something). Not sure how this is related to anything, but anyway.

...which should leave a nice trail? Good point. And that means they either have to give the seer dangerously much leeway or keep leaving trails. This is actually the first positive thing anyone has pointed out about the rules of this game! (Sorry dear Mod, I'm enjoying this game nevertheless, don't worry.)

Originally Posted by Greenie

Odd to me too, I can tell you. I thought I'd go brush my teeth and then come back to vote before turning in, but instead I somehow forgot to vote and went to sleep!

I KNEW THAT. (For the record, she's done this before, once worrying Nogrod to death as she had said she'll be back to vote in a minute, and then she didn't come back at all and wasn't answering her phone either. Well, turns out she had forgotten to vote, switched her phone off and gone to sleep.)

Next up (who knows when though): a better look at the tally and possibly a look at the phantom's (and Rune's?) posts.

PS. For anyone who wants to have a laugh on the expense of dead people (very crass I know ):

Originally Posted by Nog

I mean I'm happy to go to the Dead Thread as I have nothing to worry (if I'm lynched no gifted is lynched - and lynching a wolf is anyway a remarkable deed - so an innocent goes every now and then) and I think an innocent tp would think the same as well. But he clearly doesn't - and that's why I suspect him.

Also really curious to see what's going to happen seeing as Nogrod was very strongly against the living dictating anything to the dead, and the phantom was very strongly for it.


edit: xed with everyone - where did you guys come from? - and added a space (yes you can lynch me for editing my posts now )