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Old 09-20-2020, 02:13 AM   #267
Huinesoron
Overshadowed Eagle
 
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
I just realized when we were reassessing Wind that since Truth happens during the westwards journey, the golden dust that's shining on the heights is very literally Finrod approaching Valinor
So it's the same as the diamond dust that covered Earendil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
That tempts me to say "Sky ships are burning in the sunset light" is referring to Earendil, although that's only one ship. As for the "fire that shines brighter e'en than they" - I vote for the truth Finrod focuses on: the "holy fires blazing in the eyes", a reflection almost of the Flame Imperishable itself.
I like this interpretation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Speaking of Truth - I found a copy of the Athrabeth and was skimming it, and saw that Finrod actually uses the words "heirs" and "inheritance" with regards to mortals. Isn't that what you had in the first draft - of Secondborn inheritors? I did not realize at the time this was a Finrodism, or Tolkienism. It doesn't sound as smooth (it would have to go as "inher'tors"). But if this was an intentional reference, maybe it can be worked back in - though I almost have more hope for "heirs" than "inheritors" in terms of how the word structure fits the scansion.
It's okay, I didn't realise either. ^_^ I think it does scan - I've just sung it through as 'in-HEEER-it'rs, which is how I'd naturally sing it anyway - but we'll see how it fits when we get that far I guess?

The line that really threw me was the golden dust one, actually - it seemed to fall as "THE gol-den DUST is SHI-ning", which sounds weird. I'll have a poke at it sometime.

Now, the Lyric Party!

Any who stand in our way will be cast at our side to the dark we court! --> And any...?

Happy to put it in, but I think I was using that beat to draw breath!

Waves of the Sea --> Waves of the Great Sea?

Sure; and how about 'Breath of the West Wind'?

One by one, the oath-bound warriors fall --> ALL the oath-bound?

I actually want "seven oath-bound"; I was never happy to drop the 'seven' from the next line. And I think it parses: "one by one, the seven fell, until only two remained".

That my heart lies cold by the way --> ON the way?

By = beside, as in 'abandoned by the side of the road'.

I leave a beggar, as when I came here --> AND I leave a beggar?

Sure

I know exactly how to make this good / If you bring my daughter back at once

How about:

I know a perfect way to fix this up
If you bring my daughter back at once
I will promise her in marriage
To whoever gives Beren the shove.


Depends a little on how you pronounce 'once' (wunse or wonse).

Can turn our lives from shadowed journey

I'll put in 'shield your realm' here for now, but I'm not positive it fits with 'journey'.

And fate does not know grace or mercy! > And fate knows neither grace nor mercy?

Yes!

And I will fight for that which always has been mine! --> And I will fight for that which is and has been mine?

Um. I've tried to avoid 'has been', because I don't think it says as much. This line could scan as To fight for that which is and always has been mine, but that takes away the declarative statement.

For the Oath's sake I forsook my own home, braving the Sea and bitter Cold

"Braved the Great Sea".

Is he leading an army to Land of Woe? -- a force can be 10 people. But what about a host? Though considering that Luthien uses Land of Woe again without a preposition just a couple lines down, maybe it's best to keep the pattern.

Actually I think I like 'host'.

Then I will kiss the ground where he lies still... --> On this one, I always have to remind myself which meaning of "still" it's supposed to be.

Well, that might be intentional ('he's still there' and 'he's not moving' both make sense!), but point taken on the rhyme. I think I thought it rhymed with still/fell. where he once stood.

Your throne will crumble into ash -- another weak alternative for rhyme: Into the dust your throne will sink...

Is it meant to rhyme with 'king'? I'm toying with something about swords ringing, but it might run a bit far afield.

And in the dust the gold did shine! -- is this enough of a parallel to "golden dust is shining in the heights"? Or would it be better if "heights" was on there as well? But then either "dust" or "gold" has to go, I can't find a way to fit all 3 nouns into this phrase.

If we're definitely linking this to Tirion and Earendil, something like 'In diamond dust the gold did shine' might work. But I think it draws the link as is.

But, life entrusted to fate's hand --> life surrendered?

Yus.

More mute than stones - only the dead -- I realized later that the Russian word can mean either "mute" or "numb". My first instinct was "mute": not only are they trying to be mute as stones in the face of Sauron's questioning, but it also echoes the symbolism of their imminent deaths as songs ending and last horn call dying etc.

I think 'mute'. Stones talking is a Tolkienism ("Deep they delved us, high they builded us"), while stones feeling is a Simon&Garfunkelism.

But mysterious still --> scans and rhymes a bit awkwardly. How about "But greatest/strangest of all lore"?

"But greater than my lore". With the added bonus that in my accent, that could also be "my Law", and it was Beren's appeal that caused Finrod to set aside his rule.

Light and dark can both be damned! -- if you really want the abyss reference, there's "Abyss may swallow light and dark".

It would be "To the Abyss with Light and Dark", but I really like this line as is, so unless you feel very strongly I'd like to keep it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Well... They do have a certain code of what things they reference directly, and obliquely, and none at all. They never say Morgoth's name. But by the same token, they also never speak Luthien's name. We broke both of these rules.
They don't name Luthien?! Good grief... I mean, we could go back and rework these parts if need be. 'Morgoth' appears only four times, after all, and the only 'Luthien' is when we quoted Tolkien rather than translating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Elanor keeps telling me what we could do for a PR campaign, and I keep telling her that I'm the wrong person to do it. But she could readily do the publicity thing in the Russian-speaking world at least and somewhat in the English when the light turns green.
It's worth keeping in mind, at any rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Hate is my favourite of the Feanorian songs, but 1) We don't have the voices for that (yet), and 2) It would make more sense to do the Bloodzoning first, because Hate transitions right out of it.

Maybe the Bloodzoning? That gives an opening for all three of them without going beyond our current vocal capabilities.
Hate wouldn't actually be too hard; the brothers sing practically all of it as a duet, so I don't need to worry too much about differentiating their voices. But I'm happy to do either of these.

Drawing for "Captivity" continues (I have the Faithful now), but while I'm here, these are my original Beren and Luthien:



Luthien is V1 Luthien wearing V2 Galadriel's dress, while Beren is just V1 Beren with canon-corrected hair.

I've not seen any particularly great Berens - they all seem to parse him as a Barbarian Hero - but there's a lot of Luthien variety. Do you have any suggestions as to which would look best?

EDIT: Yeah, pretty sure that last stanza is Quenya, but sung so fast I can't parse it. I'm hearing Vilya [something], Vilya Calma at the beginning, which would mean he's evoking the Sun and Moon ("Vilya calma" is literally "sky lamp").

hS

Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-20-2020 at 02:18 AM.
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