View Single Post
Old 11-15-2006, 11:59 AM   #6
Sir Kohran
Wight
 
Sir Kohran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: England, UK
Posts: 178
Sir Kohran has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Any else think that Sam is nuts for sleeping on the edge of a cliff, regardless of his Uncle Andy’s exploits?
What choice did they have? Where else was there to sleep?

Quote:
Anyway, as our two free climbing hobbits sleep (the steepness of this path has gone beyond silly - does anyone even see steps on the outcropping on which they lay - and soon I figure we’ll see Sam bringing out the hammer and pitons), Gollum opens a pack and gathers up some lembas. He sprinkles a few crumbs on the fat one and throws the rest over the side.
Wonderfully evil.

Quote:
A wonderfully devious plan for PJ to hand to poor Sméagol, who would have been better served - and been more in character - to send the fat one over the edge and then deal with being the only servant for Frodo.
Wouldn't killing Sam just immediately drive Frodo to kill Gollum himself?

Quote:
Sam awakens, as the sound of food falling in the sky is music to his ears. He immediately accuses Gollum, who then whines that he’s always being false accused. His performance (and that of Andy Serkis) is so convincing that Sam regrets his words and even apologizes. Gollum turns Sam’s less harsh words right back on him.
I like this bit as it amplifies the tragedy of the scene - the one time Sam starts being fair to Gollum is once he's started trying to kill Frodo. Too little, too late.

Quote:
Sam goes and rouses Frodo, as the quest must continue regardless of any sneaking. Sam opens his pack to find that the cupboard is bare! He panics and then accuses Sméagol of the crime. Frodo, of course, states that Gollum does not eat said bread, and so therefore concludes that the creature could not have taken it.
This bit is quite well acted.

Quote:
That’s pretty stupid, as, as we know, Gollum could have taken it and destroyed it. But that kind of logic wouldn’t keep the scene rolling, and so we’ll just let it pass.
It's to do with the terms used - Sam accuses him of 'taking' it (allowing for its possible destroying) whilst Frodo says he doesn't eat it. Frodo is jumping to conclusions. Sam doesn't correct him and this assumption that Sam must be stupid contributes to his downfall.

Quote:
Gollum, after establishing his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt, turns prosecutor and accuses Sam. CSI: Ephel Dúath shows the evidence on Sam’s jacket, and the crumbs fall as low as his heart soon will.
Notice that the crumbs only seem to appear once Gollum points them out.

Quote:
Sam snaps when his continual sacrifices for his master all seem for not. When called a liar, he grabs and pummels poor Sméagol, who plays the beating for maximal sympathy.
Notice how this beating reflects Faramir's abuse in The Two Towers - only this time, it is Gollum that instigates it and Frodo who suffers for it; a reversal of how things used to be.

Quote:
The conversation turns to the Ring, and Sam falls again into another trap laid for him by the cunning Gollum. This is the one thing that would turn Frodo from Sam.
Sam is too honest and kind to understand Gollum's devious mind-games - but then, later on, it is this same strength of Sam's that Gollum lacks which will ultimately win through.

Quote:
Frodo decides the case, and sends Sam packing. Sam sobs, and I do as well as I just can’t see Frodo ever turning away Sam’s help.
It was a strange and rather unwanted scene - but this does allow Frodo to enter Shelob's lair alone, thus making it a far more dramatic and involving scene.

Quote:
I still can’t see Sam walking back down the cliff through Minas Morgul then west back to the Shire - was that what he intends?
I don't he intended to do anything - his whole purpose in life had just been taken from him and he was aimlessly wandering. When he finds the Lembas, he realizes his purpose still exists, he just let go of it. He refocuses and he has somewhere to go again.

Quote:
And I won’t even mention anything anymore about being stealthy.
Well, they were sleeping under the Elvish cloaks.

Quote:
Back in Minas Tirith, people smile as the dead ride out to retake Osgiliath. Not sure if the people are just trying to be positive, or they are laughing at ill-fitting pot atop Faramir’s head. Sure, most of the onlookers’ faces are downcast, but if you look closely, you’ll see one happy older woman.
Are you sure? I can't see anyone smiling.

Quote:
Flowers are cast on the road, and they should all be lilies.
I like this touch - it's almost like a funeral march.

Quote:
Suddenly, out of the crowd, a voice is heard and it’s Gandalf. He calls for Faramir, and tells him not to throw his life away in a mad dash. The wizard tells his former pupil that Denethor loves his second son, and will remember it before the end.
Gandalf stands out in this scene as he is the sole figure who is thinking outside the box - he is the only one not bound by duty and so this allows him to speak. Unfortunately...

Quote:
Faramir hears little of Gandalf’s words, and seems a bit mad himself, intent on riding off to his death.
I think his decision to ride to his death was a bit like Eowyn - he was in a state of depression. His brother was dead and his father couldn't care less about him and so he (mistakenly) believed that his life was worthless, and that death was the only escape.

Quote:
The mounted Gondorian knights ride out through the gates and across the Pelennor Fields. They form a line (or double line) and ride towards Osgiliath. Can’t get a firm number, but do we have about 200 soldiers riding east?
I love how the knights ride - it's so graceful and noble; they are ready for what is coming. Very poetic.

Note the sad version of the Gondor music playing here.

Quote:
So are we to believe that the learned Faramir, not as brash as his older and now dead brother, is leading an attack, on horse, on an enemy entrenched in difficult terrain in the light of day?
And yet, isn't this rather similar to the charge of the Rohirrim?

Quote:
While the charge is taking place, Denethor, obviously a glutton (why else would he continually eat? ), asks Pippin to sing. Haven’t we been punished enough?!? Pip digs out a fitting song, well sung,
Pippin sums up the whole tragedy and eerie feel of the attack in one haunting song. Brilliant.

Quote:
about 10 billion orcs make ready to shoot at Faramir and his men. The insanity gets even better as we see Faramir draw his sword.
Notice how this 'death' reflects Boromir's end - both times, it is the futile fight of noble swords against deadly bows - a foregone conclusion, but both of the sons go forth with the same valour.

Quote:
Anyone else see Longstreet's Grand Assault here?
Hmmm...I see the charge of the Light Brigade more. Maybe the differing choices of history is to do with which country you come from *shrugs*.

Quote:
When the arrows are finally loosed, red blood, or something that seems to be, runs from the Steward’s mouth. The juxtaposition of the song, the ride and Denethor work well in this scene, as we do not need to see all of the failed assault to know what is happening. Pippin’s heartbreak, at the end of his song, tells us all that we need to know.
The best emotional power is self-generated.

Quote:
PJ was more subtle here than usual, and I like it. Gandalf, sitting like an old fisherman by the sea, knows the fate of the soldiers as well. Bells toll off in the distance, for whom we know.
Subtle filming is harder to do than just showing it on screen - but if done right, it's far more rewarding.

Quote:
More people get ready for battle. In Dunharrow, the Rohirrim camp and await orders from King Théoden. Riding through the camp, Théoden gets a count of the spears that are at his command. 6000. Hopefully that will be enough.
Note the contrast between the quiet, still feel of Gondor with the active, practical feel of Rohan.

Quote:
By the way, what’s with RotK and cliffs? Beacons and hobbits and now Kings all are thousands of feet in the air on an edge of a ledge.
Maybe it's an obscure way of showing how the stakes are getting higher.

Quote:
Aragorn tells that ‘other king’ that 6000 won’t be enough, and that they cannot wait until more come. The other king agrees not to wait.
The tension builds...

Quote:
The horses and men are quieted or not by the shadow of the mountain under which they now walk. Éomer explains the issue to Legolas and Gimli, who learn of the Paths of the Dead.
I like the slightly creepy feel, but Legolas telling us that "the men are quiet" was irritating - I think we can tell that for ourselves.

Quote:
Aragorn himself gets a chill when he looks at the narrow way through the White mountains. Gimli, who thankfully hasn’t made a joke in the last minute, returns Aragorn to the present.
I like the little vision - clever foreshading for the scene where Aragorn will have to face the ghost for real (sounds contradictory, doesn't it?).

Quote:
Éowyn plays dress up with her new toy, and amidst the uncertainty of war, the recent death of her cousin, the dismissal of her love, she seems downright perky.
When has her love dismissed? That's yet to come.

Quote:
She arrays her Merry action figure as an esquire of Rohan, and he almost slices her sideways when drawing his sword. Reminds me of a funny story that I might tell later.
Oooh, do tell us.

Quote:
Anyway, is this the same Merry that learned swordplay from Boromir in Eregion? The one that fought orcs and a cave troll in Moria, that fought Uruks at Parth Galen? Merry then explains that his sword is dull - do magical swords get dull, or is this sword not magical? (note that Sting and the Shards of Narsil, both magical swords, remained sharp). An interesting question considering who feels the hobbit’s blade later in the movie.
This is left hanging as a bit of a plot hole. Once again, it's the Tolkien-domino effect - by removing Tom Bombadil, we lose the reason for Merry's importance, and his role is decreased. But I'm jumping ahead here.

Quote:
Éomer chides his sister for encouraging the little toy that she’s found, and she asks why Merry has to be left behind. We know that Éowyn makes the case not just for the new esquire, but for herself as well. Éomer states that war is not pretty, a dress up play, and should only be engaged by men. His argument is shallow, hollow, as Merry is a ‘man,’ and though at times acts like a child, has seen battle before (see above). A better case is that he would be a hindrance, and that he’d either get in the way or, if he could not keep up, would slow the army down as they would not want to leave him behind. We’re left with the eyes of Éowyn that do not cool at her brother’s words.
I don't really like this scene as it seems rather mean to Eowyn and makes Eomer look downright ignorant.

Quote:
Note that I did not see any Púkel-men on the path turning points in the far night shot of Dunharrow, but see something statue-like when a dark hooded figure rides a pale horse up the path. Is the stone ‘thing’ a weathered wose/ Drúedain?
A gem for the book readers.

Quote:
In his dream Aragorn sees Arwen speaking the words of Sam (about Rosie or the Gaffer?) and the Evenstar shattering on the ground. He awakes violently with knife in hand.
This dream seems silly - it touches on the issue of Arwen's invented 'death'. However, I did like Aragorn drawing Celeborn's dagger.

Quote:
Why it’s Elrond, traveling from Rivendell, presumably alone, without more elven soldiers (what a waste they were) to aid Théoden’s and Aragorn’s plight.
Notice something here - once again Aragorn receives Elvish aid, but this time it's only the support of a sword - Aragorn must do this task himself.

Quote:
Elrond explains that Arwen is dying and that only a special potion, or a dragon’s tooth, or some other impossible cure, found only atop Mount Olympus or in the netherworld can keep fair Arwen alive…or something like that. Aragorn learns that Sauron must die for Arwen to live - no pressure there to put on a future son-in-law. Elrond knows that Aragorn will (now, unlike before) join the war against the Eye, but that his chances of succeeding are slim to none.
This is so silly and unneeded I won't even comment on it.

Quote:
Aragorn’s second round of excuses is that the dead will not follow him. Elrond counters that a shiny bit of sword will do just the trick. Andúril, Narsil reforged, is brought forth. Me wonders that if that didn’t get Aragorn going what else Elrond could pull out of his sleeve. Durin’s Axe… Thranduil’s Bow…the Gaffer’s best taters…
I love the mood swing here - it's dark and depressing as Elrond puts Aragorn down, and then suddenly Anduril turns it all around and the feeling's more hopeful. As usual, the music words great.

Quote:
Nice to see his and Elrond’s hands on Andúril at the same time - something is being passed from one generation to the next.
I'm reminded vaguely of the prologue scene, with Elendil dropping Narsil and Isildur taking it up again.

Quote:
Elrond gets a little too excited, stating that the person that can wield the sword can summon an army greater than any that now walk the (middle) Earth. Is this an Arthurian Excalibur thing? Can another get ‘the power’ by holding the sword? To me it seems that the sword is key, not the wielder.
The man is the key - only one man in Middle Earth can now wield Anduril. It was forged for him only.

Quote:
Nice to hear Gilraen’s words spoken in Elvish, though Estel saying that he has no hope? Is there anyone remaining in Middle Earth with any hope?
He's just being humble - he doesn't want any glory; he's there to help other people. Like he says at the end, it doesn't belong to him but to all.
__________________
'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.'
Sir Kohran is offline   Reply With Quote