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Old 07-26-2003, 05:45 PM   #10
Maédhros
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Tolkien

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiwendil
In the 'Attack' section, we have switched the escape of the exiles from 'south' to 'north', in accordance with the later idea that Idril's secret way went north instead of south, as in the old story. But here it seems quite probable that the secret way was made in the south because that is where Tuor's house was. So would it not make sense to change 'southern' here to 'northern', and keep the connection between the position of Tuor's house and the secret escape route? This would also fix a problem I recall noticing in the later sections, where, after having escaped from the city, Tuor and the exiles turn and see his house on the near side of the city. Putting his house on the north would allow us to retain this (otherwise it will have to go).
I would hesitate to move Tuor’s house because, if it were north, it would have been more vulnerable to the initial attack of Gondolin when the hosts of Morgoth came from the North.
The sun has sunk beyond the hills and folk array them for the festival very gladly and eagerly -- glancing in expectation to the East. {Lo!} [But] even when she had gone and all was dark, a new [red] light suddenly began, and a glow there was, but it {was} [mounted] beyond the {northward heights}[hills in the North and not in the East]

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiwnendil
This change was, I think, gotten rid of. There's no reason for the (purely stylistic) insertion of 'the'.
Ok.

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiwnendil
Perhaps we should insert here some mention of the mother name "Ardamire" from Shibboleth. I can think of no other place for it, and it would be a shame not to include it at all.
How about this:
FG-TG-11.05
for in great love Idril bore to Tuor a son [and she named him Ardamírë, but his father named him] {and he was called} Eärendil [and by this name he was know ever after].

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiwnendil
I think this is good, but I think we must at least consider the implication of the Tale of Years D2: "Maeglin captured by spies of Melkor (Sauron?)"
What would such a change imply actually? Only the insertion of the name Sauron or some editing of the sort.

Quote:
Originally posted by Aiwnendil
There is no previous indication that Ulmo sent a last warning to Turgon, but as this comes from some of the latest writing on the end of the First Age, it carries a certain weight and cannot be easily disregarded. Of course, we have no idea how Ulmo was to send a last message. But perhaps it would be enough simply to say that he did, and leave the method ambiguous.
Whether we do so or not, this quote brings up another interesting point. Note the words "but Turgon will have no alliance with any after the kin-slaying of Doriath." Christopher Tolkien comments that this could mean "no alliance with any son of Feanor", and I think this interpretation quite likely, considering that the kin-slaying of Doriath is named as a reason. But what has this to do with the message of Ulmo? If Ulmo's counsel is simply to abandon Gondolin and depart down the Sirion, there is no logic in Turgon's refusal: no one is asking him to have an alliance with the sons of Feanor (or with anyone).
The only explanation I can think of for an unwillingness to have an alliance being a reason for Turgon's refusal of Ulmo's counsel is that the old element of Ulmo's advising Turgon to go to war was either retained or revived. And on a close inspection of the sources, this seems not all that unlikely. In the last account of the Fall of Gondolin, that in Q30, it was retained. The only piece of evidence that it had been dropped is the Grey Annals, where, in an extremely compressed account of Tuor's coming to Gondolin, it is said that "There Tuor was brought before King Turgon, and spake the words that Ulmo had set in his mouth, bidding him depart and abandon the fair and mighty city that he had built, and go down to the sea." Certainly it sounds here as though the advice to go to war was dropped; but when one considers that this was a rather compressed account, that it's the only source indicating such a change, and the implication of the Tale of Years, it begins to seem quite likely that the first component of Ulmo's counsel was not dropped at all.
Hmmmm. I know what you mean but, that Tale of Year is version C, the later version D, has no indication about this. The interesting point about version C is that would JRRT kept the notion that Turgon would go forward and fight against Morgoth.
From The Shaping of Midle-Earth: The Quenta, 16 II
Quote:
But now Ulmo bade him make all speed to Gondolin, and gave him guidance for the finding of the hidden door; and a message he gave him to bear from Ulmo, friend of Elves, unto Turgon, bidding him to prepare for war, and battle with Morgoth ere all was lost; and to send again his messengers into the West. Summons too should he send into the East and gather, if he might, Men (who were now multiplying and spreading on the earth) unto his banners; and for that task Tuor was most fit. 'Forget,' counselled Ulmo, 'the treachery of Uldor the accursed, and remember Húrin; far without mortal Men the Elves shall not prevail against the Balrogs and the Orcs.' Nor should the feud with the sons of Fëanor be left unhealed; for this should be the last gathering of the hope of the Gnomes, when every sword should count. A terrible and mortal strife he foretold, but victory if Turgon would dare it, the breaking of Morgoth's power, and the healing of feuds, and friendship between Men and Elves, whereof the greatest good should come into the world, and the servants of Morgoth trouble it no more. But if Turgon would not go forth to this war, then he should abandon Gondolin and lead his people down Sirion, and build thee his fleets and seek back to Valinor and the mercy of the Gods. But in this counsel there was danger more dire than in the other, though so it might not seem; and grievous thereafter would be the fate of the Outer Lands.
This brings up the point of why would Ulmo think that the forces of the Free Elves with Men, would be enough to beat Morgoth when they were utterly defeated in the Nirnaeth. I would rather not go into this.
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