The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR

Firefoot · 06-14-2004, 12:51 PM

Fordim, post #14

I must disagree with your point about hobbits/Sauron, etc. You say that hobbits and Sauron share some similar qualities, and to an extent I agree with this, but the qualities that you listed (Order, Invisibility, 'using' the land, Rules) all seem to me to be portrayed in a completely different manner.

Order: Hobbits like to have everything ordered, in that their holes are neat, everything is set out fair and square with no contradictions, well-ordered countryside, and this quality goes has much to do with agreeing and getting along with other hobbits. Sauron, on the other hand, wants Order and dominion over all other beings. He wants to control everything else and have them ordered under him. Using Sam as an example: "The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command."

Invisibility: Hobbits use this quality to disappear "when large folk whom they do not wish to meet come blundering by" and it comes from "a close friendship with the earth". Sauron's invisibility, however, comes from using the Ring, which is pure evil. He made the Ring in order that he might dominate others, making his invisibility evil.

'Using' the land: Hobbits like to farm ("for they love... good tilled earth a a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt"), and they do the farming themselves, which goes back to Sam's "his own hands to use...". Sauron has innumerable slaves to do his work for him ("the hands of others to command").

Rules: I have already written quite a bit about hobbits and rules, but I will just repeat a single point and that is that hobbits do not seem to have rules because they are "necessary", but rather because they like to have everything set out fair and square (going back to order...). Sauron has rules to dominate, control, and command others to do what he wants.

So perhaps the point that I am trying to get to here is that a quality is just that. It is how the quality is used in a person (for good or evil) that determines who they are. I am not trying to say that hobbits are perfect. They aren't. They are ordinary, and therefore imperfect. The statement that I have a problem with (and I may be misinterpreting this) is that hobbits have these qualities which are similar to Sauron's and are therefore evil qualities. (This is a bit over-simplified, I think) But I have always held the opinion that hobbits are in nature good and peaceful beings, which contributes to their resistence to the Ring and other like qualities.

Edit: cross-posting with Mark12_30 and Nurumaiel.

06-14-2004, 12:51 PM	#21
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,576	Fordim, post #14 I must disagree with your point about hobbits/Sauron, etc. You say that hobbits and Sauron share some similar qualities, and to an extent I agree with this, but the qualities that you listed (Order, Invisibility, 'using' the land, Rules) all seem to me to be portrayed in a completely different manner. Order: Hobbits like to have everything ordered, in that their holes are neat, everything is set out fair and square with no contradictions, well-ordered countryside, and this quality goes has much to do with agreeing and getting along with other hobbits. Sauron, on the other hand, wants Order and dominion over all other beings. He wants to control everything else and have them ordered under him. Using Sam as an example: "The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command." Invisibility: Hobbits use this quality to disappear "when large folk whom they do not wish to meet come blundering by" and it comes from "a close friendship with the earth". Sauron's invisibility, however, comes from using the Ring, which is pure evil. He made the Ring in order that he might dominate others, making his invisibility evil. 'Using' the land: Hobbits like to farm ("for they love... good tilled earth a a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt"), and they do the farming themselves, which goes back to Sam's "his own hands to use...". Sauron has innumerable slaves to do his work for him ("the hands of others to command"). Rules: I have already written quite a bit about hobbits and rules, but I will just repeat a single point and that is that hobbits do not seem to have rules because they are "necessary", but rather because they like to have everything set out fair and square (going back to order...). Sauron has rules to dominate, control, and command others to do what he wants. So perhaps the point that I am trying to get to here is that a quality is just that. It is how the quality is used in a person (for good or evil) that determines who they are. I am not trying to say that hobbits are perfect. They aren't. They are ordinary, and therefore imperfect. The statement that I have a problem with (and I may be misinterpreting this) is that hobbits have these qualities which are similar to Sauron's and are therefore evil qualities. (This is a bit over-simplified, I think) But I have always held the opinion that hobbits are in nature good and peaceful beings, which contributes to their resistence to the Ring and other like qualities. Edit: cross-posting with Mark12_30 and Nurumaiel.