[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

just like the spiders of Mirkwood were simply offspring of Ungoliant, resp. Shelob, and did not need any special "spirits" to inhabit their bodies, it seems. They were simply already "born" that way

I don't think Lady Gaga has tried a spider outfit yet, has she? But either way, I now have a weird vision of Shelob forming in my mind

Originally Posted by Zigur

If I might make a humorous aside before I begin, I'm afraid that to me the modern version of Doctor Who is a bit like the films of The Lord of the Rings: my love is reserved for the original, in this case the Hartnell-to-Radagast, I mean McCoy, era (McGann too), and I'm extremely skeptical of almost everything in the modern interpretations. My mind is reeling at the thought of Professor Tolkien's work being at all improved by having similarities to the writing of Mr Russell T Davies...

RTD is a genius! I will agree that Moffat leaves a lot to be desired though...one day he will choose to focus on Sherlock instead and pass the baton to someone else *crosses fingers*

Originally Posted by Zigur

Personally I see Saruman's "of Many Colours" routine as being symptomatic of a descent into darkness: first the light is broken, then it goes out. Consider, if you will, Morgoth in Valaquenta: "He began with the desire of Light, but when he could not possess it for himself alone, he descended through fire and wrath into a great burning, down into darkness." To me this act of refraction on the part of Saruman evokes the decay of motives which emphasises him as a feeble imitation of his diabolic role models, much like his attempts to forge his own Ring: "for all those arts and subtle devices, for which he forsook his former wisdom, and which fondly he imagined were his own, came but from Mordor". (LR p.542)

Yes. It can be read in many ways - I have tried to dig down and work out for myself exactly how the Rings worked within the context of Tolkien's creation, but it can also be looked at in the context of what was 'moral' in Eru's world. Which is what I think you are referring to? Light is at once both intangible and very real - it symbolises the 'correct' path in Arda, but it is also something which can be claimed and used (many instances of Light's physical reality: the Two Trees; Silmarils; the Phial of Galadriel etc). Morgoth like many others wants to claim Light for himself, he even teams up with Ungoliant, who turns out to only want to negate Light. The act of trying to claim Light is both a physical act and a spiritual one, a metaphor for descending into evil.

This is another example, I would argue, of how Saruman was merely an imitator of Sauron; the Dark Lord had achieved the same thing with Trolls, the Olog-hai: "they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them."
I personally don't see anything different or new about Saruman's activities, just inferior replications of the evil of Sauron. That his servants needed protection from the light (if this was not a mere effect of them being bred with Men) to me symbolises his evil. It is not an act of mastery; it is a compensation for one of the shortcomings of rebellion - an anathema for and weakness to something holy and good. I would suggest that, much like Sauron in the Second Age, Saruman still had "the relics of positive purposes" at some point in his plan (although I very much doubt that these were still present by the time of the Scouring of the Shire). "Sauron had, in fact, been very like Saruman, and so still understood him quickly and could guess what he would be likely to think and do." (Morgoth's Ring p.396) In this way I tend to see Saruman's fall, with its ring-making and many colours, as a sort of sped-up, rushed version of Sauron's own, and correspondingly fragmented for its brevity and Saruman's relatively lesser strength.

And yes, I agree, it could well be that what Saruman tries to achieve is just an echo of what Morgoth and Sauron have also tried to achieve. He does it in a different way though. Morgoth tries to claim Light at every opportunity. Sauron seems to deny it. Saruman however attempts to work out what it is and use the 'base chemicals' to craft something new.

Ultimately yes, his actions only echo what Morgoth and Sauron did before him, as in Arda, it is not acceptable to challenge or claim ownership of Light. But he still tries, and he tries something a little different. This is why I have nicknamed it Saruman's 'third way' - he does not see it as good or evil, it is another path to him. But it is also a slightly different approach to those taken by both Morgoth and Sauron.

I like the thought that just as Light and light refract and splinter, so the attempts by those on the side of evil in Arda also refract - their works shatter, and with each new attempt to gain control, their efforts grow ever weaker.