View Single Post
Old 11-03-2011, 06:55 PM   #6
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 25
FlimFlamSam has just left Hobbiton.
mark12_30 spoke: How had they dwindled or grown from age to age? Any quotes or ideas saying why?

Not much is known really. The author didn't give much in specifics.
Dwindled is certain however on both fronts.

There are some curious tidbits about Lothlorien though.

In virtually all texts Lothlorien is a divided community. Also, not all the Lothlorien elves were tree-dwellers. Legolas states that the elves of Lorien did not delve under the ground or build forts of stone before the Shadow came.
Meaning they did so afterwards.
This is c.1000 or thereabouts.

Curiously, Haldir comments on halflings and their evil nature. He mentions not having heard of halflings for many years, but that these halflings (in the Fellowship) did not look evil, so persumably these are the tales he knows of concerning halflings from the past--that they are an evil race (in looks originally? or perhaps both in looks and demeanor?).

The Stoors of Gladden would be the obvious source for these tales, but perhaps not wholly. There may be some ancient connection with the Pukel Wild-men afterall. Halflings have dwelt in the south (Oliphaunt tales and other remnants of memory) and is the likely origin point for the halflings in the Anduin valley since these tales survive into lore in the Shire.

The old elf tales of evil halflings perhaps may have also come from their southward connections--the old and now largely abandoned havens in the Belfalas region, which were also population centers for Lothlorien elves as was Ithilien itself. Legolas mentions that elves dwelt there once and that the land had not completely forgotten them.

Haldir also lets the readers know that the Galadrim (the tree-dwellers) dwell in the heart of the forest (or elvendom), but that pockets of other Lorien elves are sundered from the Galadrim--in the north of Lothlorien specifically, but presumably elsewhere. These may be the elves who delved underground or built forts for defense against the Shadow that Legolas refers to.

So the population information of Lothlorien elves may be slightly skewed.

Rivendell is another matter, as many of the elves travel in wandering companies from Mithlond and Rivendell back and forth and are closely allied and seemingly confer frequently. The wandering companies from Mithlond also seem to have a capable network of communication, possibly using animals. Messages came to Bombadil fast enough as he seems to have little interaction with the world at large except for the occasional visit to hobbit lands and talking to animals and trees.

Noldor elves also apparently held the three elf towers and the palantir there, but no information is known on population or if it consists only of elves of Mithlond. Rivendell elves may also dwell there. Gildor visits Rivendell often enough, and is probably where he last saw Bilbo.

All that is assured is that the elves are much dwindled in numbers.

Which was greater? As per the original thread--hard to say.
Lothlorien most likely as it had to defend itself on at least active two fronts (Dol Guldur and Moria) for many, many years. Possibly a third front from the goblins of the north in addition.
You don't do that sucessfully unless you have some quality strength.

Rivendell seems to be a much more peaceful place and had little communication with Lothlorien. Afterall, Haldir only knew of a vague rumor concerning the havens beyond the land of the halflings, so few--if any--elves took sail from there, and the old south havens are seldom used, if at all, at the time of the war of the ring.
Faramir remarks that it has been some time since elves were seen in Gondor.
The Rivendell elves regularly use the havens of Mithlond to sail away, depleting their numbers even further.

That help any?
FlimFlamSam is offline   Reply With Quote