[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

davem..... based on presentations I have seen in person with various illustrators plus personal conversations, it is my belief that the Estate likes to have a strong hand in these matters. Obviously, the Estate, as gaurdians for the work of JRRT, would consider that a good quality that they posess. It seems that you do also. And that is fine. I do feel that this "not too many monsters" approach is an unnecessary sanitizing of the actual stories that JRRT wrote. Not that the stories themselves are edited, but that the visual portrayal of them is. So what we end up with is a less than honest visual presentation in book form of what was actually written.

There are monsters on the covers - I've mentioned the various H0M-e covers that depict dragons, Morgoth & Shelob. The UK hb of Unfinished Tales has Tolkien's own picture of Glaurung. But they don't depict extreme violence or cruelty - & neither do the books. Tolkien didn't go in for graphic depictions of such things - Most new readers of Tolkien's work (particularly in the post movie period) are surprised (not to mention disappointed in many cases) at the lack of 'action'. The CoH illustrations, both colour & b&w, are as 'graphic' as the text - which means they aren't very graphic at all. What kind of images, exactly, do you want to see? Do you want to see Elves being burned alive by Glaurung? Do you want a graphic close up of Hurin slicing up Trolls, or on of Turin with the sword stuck through him & blood spurting in all directions - 'cos that ain't described in such detail in the text.

Again, I refer you to the website of Nasmith and several score of color rough paintings he did as suggestions for full illustrations. The ones that did not make it were either action sequences of the darker side of JRRT's work. Some have speculated that this is a reaction to the Jackson films. But this was in motion before the films ever came out.

And I refer you to the fact that Naismith has them on his website for all to see & he's still getting commissions from the Estate - all they've said is that they don't want them in the books.

I refer you to the recent CofH and the near absence of the areas I am concerned with despite their obvious presence throughout the text.

No - as I've pointed out, the kind of graphic violence & destruction you mention is absent from the book - Tolkien does not go in for that kind of thing. He may tell you that thousands died horribly in the Nirnaeth, or that Glaurung slew 'x' number of Elves, but he doesn't describe the deaths in detail.

My problem is what we end up with is a less than honest approach to selection of illustration material in that several areas that JRRT wrote about seem off limits to illustrators. As a consumer, and as a fan of illustration, this is less than satisfying to me.

But as I've said, its there if you want it. The kind of graphic violence & close up depictions of monsters in all their horrible 'majesty' is available on numerous sites. The Estate just don't want it in the books, mainly because they feel it is not representative (for the reasons I've given)

I simply think that the policy of the Estate as it pertains to "monsters" and the darker side of the material is wrong and is depriving consumers of what could be a better package.

But, as Tolkien stated in LotR:

But Orcs and Trolls spoke as they would, without love of words or things; and their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering, though models are easy to find. Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal rigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong.

Which, I think, shows Tolkien's own feelings pretty clearly, & his approach to depictions of violence, darkness & cruelty, in language as in other things. "actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering, though models are easy to find." could equally well apply to his approach to depictions of violence & monsters in his own work.