[Estel the Descender]

"Though not as overtly and sympathetically occultic as the Harry Potter series, Tolkien’s fantasies are unscriptural and present a very dangerous message ...
The world knows its own; and when the demonic world of fantasy role-playing and the morally filthy world of rock and roll love something (ie. Tolkien), you can be sure it is not godly and it is not the truth ...

Tolkien certainly did get his ideas from pagan religions, and the message promoted in his fantasy books is strictly pagan."

... (a) bright and dazzling display of the occult, witchcraft and evil. It is another presentation of the "good" using evil to fight evil. And it presents sorcery as both "good" and evil. Violently. Grotesquely. While the story being based on "good" fighting evil using evil is bad enough, it is clear the filmmakers capitalized on extremism. Tolkien certainly described the evil and demonic characters in his novel quite grotesquely but not nearly as hideous and vile as those in this movie.
... I am not going to try to debate the claims that Tolkien's Rings trilogy parallels shards of the Truth shattered from the Bible. Satan is very good at making the truth into a lie through the most innocent vehicles and by the least obvious methods.

Maybe the Christian faith is under more attack [by the adversary through the unbelievers] than any other faith because it is the "right one": the one faith that poses the greatest and maybe the only real threat to the adversary ...

It is fine that there are symbolisms of the Gospel and behaviors expected of Christians in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, however "adapted" or "adjusted" they may be ... But my original point still stands firm: the "good" used evil (sorcery/witchcraft) to fight evil.

Gandlaf (sic) dying in sacrifice of himself for the lives of others and later being resurrected does not fit the picture of the Crucifixion and Resurrection but is a counterfeiting of them.

Regarding the powers possessed by the "nonhuman" characters being hardly wizardry or sorcery since the users were not human, Satan is not human either. The source of the power determines the holiness of it, not the use of it.

In essence, maybe The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring is in itself a "One Ring."

I actually know guys like these, and guess what, they don't like The Chronicles of Narnia(which is supposed to be explicitly Christian) also. The only 'Christian Fantasy" they like are Veggie Tales.

But seriously, even if someone was to read Harry Potter I don't think that they will in any way learn any true sorcery or witchcraft. The 'magic' presented is not real: the witches and the wizards there are stereotyped. The brooms, the screaming mandrakes. . . neither the Wiccan religion nor genuine Satanism has any of those elements. The magic of Harry Potter is just stage-magic: there is nothing really genuinely occult there (except, perhaps the nasty House of Slytherin and that grouchy Snape).

Anyone who has read the LotR knows that the story of the end of the Third Age is also the story of the end of Magic. That Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf knew that the destruction of the One Ring would also mean the destruction of their powers is lost to the guys who say that LotR promotes the occult. What? was Sauron overcome by magical Gandalf or was he undone by definitely un-magical Frodo and Sam? Did not Gandalf forego the use of the ultimate magic ring, knowing that it would corrupt him? The theme is definitely not 'good uses "evil" magic':

But my original point still stands firm: the "good" used evil (sorcery/witchcraft) to fight evil.

the theme is 'Better that good magic is destroyed forever rather than let evil magic survive'.

And please, Gandalf is NOT JESUS! The sacrifice of Gandalf is more comparable to a soldier throwing himself on a live grenade to save his buddies than to the Passion of Christ.

Well, at least we know that there are no generic Christians. . .

On a structural level, the Bible was written (or recorded, or transcribed, whatever) by a multitude of hands from a multitude of sources, across a long period of time. In addition, we are familiar with one major translation, which address some (not all) of the range of source data. Tolkien was one man who wrote over the span of one lifetime.

Well, there are some Christians who believe that although the Bible was written 'by a multitude of hands from a multitude of sources, across a long period of time' the finished work has only one author: God. Moses and St. Paul is to God what Christopher Tolkien is to his Dad.


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Oh, NO--wait! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Please don't close this thread--